NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2010
Date of the NIP: - 35 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 37 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A406 Nth Circ Rd Opp Heather E/B NW2 (7511)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - No
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company Car
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I'm not looking to deny the fact I was caught speeding, but I do object to not being sent a PCN (instead I have a court summons). I was caught doing 53 in a 40 by a fixed camera. My company was sent the intial NIP on 11/08/2010 and I received a reminder NIP at my home address around the 06/09/2010. I filled this out and sent it back.

The evidence provided by the prosecution to the court include camera imagery of the car passing the camera along with only the reminder NIP which says I have to return the letter within 7 days. The police claim to have only received this on the 15/09/2010. On the 23/11/2010 I received a court summons.

Can I argue that the NIP was issued too late and should be time barred, or is there any other way I can look to limiting the fine. I've read that I could be fined 1 weeks wage.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - No
- Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:17:12 +0000

What happened to the NIP that you received between your company sending back the original NIP naming you as driver, and the reminder NIP you received on the 6th?

Also, what are the charge(s) listed on the summons? It sounds as if you've been summonsed for the S172 offence of Failure to Furnish?

There was no second NIP to my home address - just the initial NIP to my company address and then a reminder to the home address.

The summons is for EXCESS SPEED SECTION 20.

Ok well at least that's good that you're not being summonsed for Failure to Furnish.

If it were me I'd state in court that you never received an initial NIP to your address and the first you heard of the offence was a reminder NIP (which incidentally some forces don't even bother with, they're not obligated to), and had you received one you would've replied in a timely fashion.

Regards the 14 day rule - this only applies to the first NIP in the chain so you'd need to investigate whether or not your company received it in time, the fact you received a reminder NIP 37 days after the alleged offence won't matter.

PCN = Penalty charge notice for non criminal driving offences, as speeding is a criminal offence you may be better off objecting to not having been offered a fixed penalty!

Is the company the registered keeper (do they hold the V5C registration document?), or do they, like most companies, lease the cars, if so the first NIP probably went to the elasing company, it's only teh first NIP to the registered keeper that has to be served within 14 days (of the alleged offence) anything else can take as long as they feel like.

Simon

You need to find out if the first NIP, the one sent to the Registered Keeper perhaps a leasing company (if there is one) at the very outset was sent so it could be received within fourteen days of the alleged offence. Any subsequent "NIPs" are in fact requests for driver details and are not time limited.

The Police may have worked out that if they issue a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, you may achieve a time-out as they only have six months to resolve the matter and to lay an information before a court to get a summons issued.

IIRC, if you could have been dealt with by Fixed Penalty, you can request such a punishment when you do go to court, rather than face the higher fine you mention earlier.

I actually opened the 1st NIP sent to my company address, and sent it back myself (it was addressed to the company name not a driver). My company are the registered keepers of the vehicle and hold the V5C.

Sounds like I'll be arguing the late NIP; what would be th best way to handle this? Do I plead guilty or not guilty by post or in person? I was thinking of entering this plead by post:

LETTER TO COURT:

The car I was driving is a company vehicle, and the initial NIP was sent to my work address to my company name on 9th August 2010. I opened the letter, and filled out the section to say I was the driver. A second reminder letter was then sent to my home address on the 6th September 2010 (which is the evidence that prosecution have presented to the court).

The initial NIP was issued more than 14 days after the offence – and this is apparent in the prosecution’s evidence:



I believe that the ruling on NIP’s is that if the issue date is more than 14 days after the alleged offence took place then I can appeal against the ticket on the grounds that it is time barred.

I plead guilty to the speeding offence. I was the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention.

What is the DocRef date on the V5C?

Was there a recent change of address or ownership around the time of the alleged offence?

Could you think of any other reason why the Police may not have been able to get the NIP to the Registered Keeper in time?

Had the vehiclee been purchased around the time of the alleged offence, is is possible that the DVLA didn't know the name and address of the RK at that time?

I think you're confusing your personal S172 "name the driver" form with a reminder.

If you completed the company form, you did so as an Official of the Company, nominating the driver at their home address, rather than as you, the driver.

You then received your "NIP" or S172 form at home as a result of that.

I'm slightly confused about the sequence of the documents.

You say that a NIP was received at your company in the company's name.
Why did you fill it in ?
Were you acting in an official capacity ?
How did you fill it in - "I was the driver" ? or "The driver's name was...." ?

The answer might explain why you didn't receive an S172 in your own name at your home address that would have been followed a few weeks later by a COFP.

A NIP addressed to a company states very clearly that it must be completed by and on behalf of the company NOT by the driver. If the form is returned by the "driver" instead of a company representative it leads to exactly the situation you have.

I'm a manager of my company, and completely entitled to open post in an official capacity; I completed the NIP stating "the driver was...".

I have had the car for about 6 months, so I'd expect DVLA records to be up to date. The week prior I got caught on a manned speed camera and pulled over. They looked up the car and found it was registered to my company. This was my first 3 points 15 years of driving. A week later I got caught on the case I've been referring to.

im not at at sure it does ?

if they accept the nomination, as it appears they did ? then a new 172 would have been recieved by the op at home, if not then the 172 offence would have been commited by the employer

as he got a remminder it seems that
1 they did accept it
2 that the first 172 to him went astray

what is strange is why a reply that was in time to be acceptable for 172 purposes, was too late for a cofp ?


it looks like a prime case for asking for only a cofp penalty to be issued by the court

“On 09-AUG-2010 you were sent a Notice of Intended Prosecution regarding an alleged offence of EXCESS SPEED (40 MPH LIMIT) 05-JUL-2010 at 20:59 hours...”

Why does it say this? From their point of view, the 9 Aug NIP went to your company, not to you.

On the face of it, there appears to be no reason for the NIP being issued so long after the alleged offence.

Although you're likely to have to take the case to court, I can't see any reason not to write to the Police and ask them for an explanation for the late service.

No idea, possibly standard letter format?

Thanks for the clarification Phil. My apologies that I'd missed the part that you'd opened the letter.

Reason I asked was the number of threads where companies have passed a NIP to the drivers and told him to deal with.

So the issue then is the chance that a late NIP defence will succeed v guilty plea and request for COFP level of penalty.

Can you confirm from the date of the first NIP to your company that it was sent so late that it wouldn't arrive on time and you're not faced with an argument about postal delivery times ?

phil, whats your status at the company, ie are you empowered to open letters addressed to the company( sec) are to reply on their behalf ?

My status within the company is IT Manager, I'm not a company secretary or a director. However, there were no directors present on the day the letter arrived and no secretary (and since I suspected it was for me in any case) I opened it. My company have no issue with me opening such post - and if it came to it they'd say I opened it under instruction. Although strictly not the correct procedure, I do not believe this to be the reason that I find myself with a summons. For all intents it appears that the S20 is the reason.


Indeed. According to the evidence that the met are presenting to the court (the reminder letter sent to my home address) the initial letter appears to have been sent on 09-Aug-2010. Unfortunately I did not photocopy all the letters received and envelopes. I certainly will be doing so in the future. I presumed it would be a straight forward fixed penalty to which I had no intention of disputing.

phil, there seems no obvious connection between you completing the 172 and the summons for speeding, non at all

maybe they have got confused in the middle of you signing the comp 172 and naming yourself and then sending you a remminder ? but if they recieved you completed form, in time not too prosicute for the 172, there is no good reason not to send you a cofp

its looks a prime case to ask for only the cofp, penalty to be appied by the court