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dh2z
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2010
Date of the NIP: - 15 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 48 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M4 between Jnc 34 Miskin and Jnc 35 Pencoed
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company driver driving Hired Vehicle
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I drive a hire vehicle (not leased) provided by my company.

I was recorded doing 99 mph on a 70 mph restricted motorway (no defence!!).

Since it was a hire vehicle, the NIP has taken a while to get through to me. However, I have checked with the hire company, who have sent me a faxed copy of the original NIP. The original NIP was issued on 22/10/10 so, by my reckoning, not including the day of the offence and allowing for "ordinary course of the post" the original NIP falls outside of the absolute 14 day rule.

The question is, can I rely on this as it is a hire car?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Do nothing!

    The police are not requesting the information from you, they are requesting it from the person the NIP is addressed to.
    Wait until you receive a NIP addressed to you personally, then come back here.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 10:09:02 +0000
Grant_W
As long as the hire company are the RK of the vehicle the NIP may be too late.

Have you discounted the day of the offence when you can up with 15 days?
Pete D
What were the other important dates. Pete D
redloner
You need to establish this is the first NIP in the chain and that there wasn't one issued to a finance or leasing company before the hire company received theirs.

If the hire company did receive the first NIP and it was late, you'll probably end up having to rebut the presumption of service in court.
dh2z
QUOTE (Grant_W @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 10:16) *
As long as the hire company are the RK of the vehicle the NIP may be too late.

Have you discounted the day of the offence when you can up with 15 days?



Offence took place on 07 Oct 10. Allowing for the day after the offence (08 Oct 10), with the NIP being issued to the hire company on 22 Oct 10, the issue date is exactly 14 days. However, it then needs to go in the post so, even if they sent it for next day delivery, it would not have been received by the hire company until 23 Oct 10.

The days between 08 Oct 10 - 23 Oct 10 = 15.

I am hoping that this makes it timed out.

QUOTE (redloner @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 10:20) *
You need to establish this is the first NIP in the chain and that there wasn't one issued to a finance or leasing company before the hire company received theirs.

If the hire company did receive the first NIP and it was late, you'll probably end up having to rebut the presumption of service in court.



May sound a bit dumb, but how can I find out if there was an earlier NIP to a finance or leasing company?

If there were, for them to issue the NIP to the hire company on the 22nd would have been a quick turn-round!
peterguk
If it was sent on day 14, then PROVIDING IT WAS THE FIRST NIP/S.172 IN THE CHAIN, then it was sent too late.

However, many lease cars are registered to a finance company, so i'd be wanting sight of the V5C or a letter from the hire company confirmimg they are the RK before proceeding on that basis.

Remember, a late NIP does not relinquish your legal obligation to complete and return the S.172 within 28 days of receipt.

QUOTE (dh2z @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 10:46) *
If there were, for them to issue the NIP to the hire company on the 22nd would have been a quick turn-round!


Not really, for an organised company.
dh2z
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 10:48) *
If it was sent on day 14, then PROVIDING IT WAS THE FIRST NIP/S.172 IN THE CHAIN, then it was sent too late.

However, many lease cars are registered to a finance company, so i'd be wanting sight of the V5C or a letter from the hire company confirmimg they are the RK before proceeding on that basis.

Remember, a late NIP does not relinquish your legal obligation to complete and return the S.172 within 28 days of receipt.

QUOTE (dh2z @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 10:46) *
If there were, for them to issue the NIP to the hire company on the 22nd would have been a quick turn-round!


Not really, for an organised company.

OK - Just spoke to the hire company and they say they are the reghistered keeper and they have the log book (presume this is the V5C?). They are going to fax it through to me today.

The current NIP has been sent through to my company who will be completing it today, naming me as the driver. I presume that I will then receive an NIP direct from SW Police and, assuming I can confirm the hire company as the RK, with the evidence that shows they fell outside the absolute 14 day rule, I am hoping to be in clear water.

Only need to take the heavy diving boot off my right foot then !

I will post how things go, but thanks for your assistance.
dh2z
QUOTE (dh2z @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 11:00) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 10:48) *
If it was sent on day 14, then PROVIDING IT WAS THE FIRST NIP/S.172 IN THE CHAIN, then it was sent too late.

However, many lease cars are registered to a finance company, so i'd be wanting sight of the V5C or a letter from the hire company confirmimg they are the RK before proceeding on that basis.

Remember, a late NIP does not relinquish your legal obligation to complete and return the S.172 within 28 days of receipt.

QUOTE (dh2z @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 10:46) *
If there were, for them to issue the NIP to the hire company on the 22nd would have been a quick turn-round!


Not really, for an organised company.

OK - Just spoke to the hire company and they say they are the reghistered keeper and they have the log book (presume this is the V5C?). They are going to fax it through to me today.

The current NIP has been sent through to my company who will be completing it today, naming me as the driver. I presume that I will then receive an NIP direct from SW Police and, assuming I can confirm the hire company as the RK, with the evidence that shows they fell outside the absolute 14 day rule, I am hoping to be in clear water.

Only need to take the heavy diving boot off my right foot then !

I will post how things go, but thanks for your assistance.


BAD NEWS - the hire company has just come back to me and confirmed that the car is a lease vehicle for which they are not the registered keeper. This means that the first NIP would have gone to another company before them, and is within the 14 day rule.

So my question changes to what the likely consequence is of having registering 99 on a 70mph motorway in South Wales, for an otherwise clean licence holder?
nemo
QUOTE (dh2z @ Thu, 25 Nov 2010 - 11:15) *
So my question changes to what the likely consequence is of having registering 99 on a 70mph motorway in South Wales, for an otherwise clean licence holder?


Logician
When you get the V5C, check that the name of the registered keeper is the same as the company the first NIP was sent to, and find the docref date. There would be an excuse for the late NIP if the V5C had been re-issued on a transfer of the vehicle, a new vehicle or change of address, but if the docref date pre-dates the date of the offence that should be OK.
Gan
When did your company receive their S172 ?

Ask them to return it as late as possible.
dh2z
Looks like I will be attending South Wales Magistrates for registering 99 on a motorway.

From this site I note that I could be facing up to 6 points, a fine ranging from 75% - 125% of Net Weekly Income (First offence in last 10 years?), or a possible disqualification of 7 - 28 Days.

My question is, can they give me all three or:

1. If I get the ban, do I get the points and fine
The Rookie
If you get a ban, you'll still get a fine/costs but no points, so it will be:-
ban and fine
or
Points and fine

99 in a 70, first offence, and no significant aggravating factors is unlikely to result in a ban, 6 points (5 slight possibility) and a fine of circa 100% of your weekly income (less 1/3 for an early guilty plea) is likely.

Simon
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