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horseplay
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2010
Date of the NIP: - 169 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 169 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - New Road Garndiffaith
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - I was a named driver on the insurance policy. The car belonged to my boyfriend
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The date of the incident was an MOT day, so the car was at the garge for some of the day and as it was 5 months ago I can't honestly remember who would have been driving at the time - could have been me, my boyfriend or a man from the MOT station possibly. My boyfriend (who is now an ex) must have put my name down on the NIP whenever he recieved it, as I was not aware of this until I opened the letter this morning. It says on the NIP: "This allegation is supported by photographic/video evidence". Would I be entitled to see this evidence as I do not know who was driving ?

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • As you are not the person keeping the vehicle, the reasonable diligence test doesn't apply to you.
    Therefore, you are only required to provide such information as is in your power to give (e.g. the names and addresses of the possible drivers).

    You should reply within the 28 day period and explain the circumstances in a covering letter.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:59:31 +0000
peterguk
Write and request photos to "assist in identification of the driver." Do not mention "proof" or "evidence".

You might want to check credit card records, phone bills etc...

Remember, whether the photos turn up or not, you are still obliged to return the S.172 within 28 days.

Were you the "keeper" of the car at the time? As in who had the keys when the car was not being driven?
BaggieBoy
If the offence occured in May, it must be close to timing out.
horseplay
No he kept the keys I used the car occassionaly, as it was cheaper to run than mine was. The offence date is 25/05/10. I don't really understand about the whole 'timing out' thing ?


Thanks for all your help.
peterguk
QUOTE (horseplay @ Thu, 11 Nov 2010 - 11:28) *
No he kept the keys I used the car occassionaly, as it was cheaper to run than mine was. The offence date is 25/05/10. I don't really understand about the whole 'timing out' thing ?


Thanks for all your help.


The authorities only have 6 months from date of offence to commence court proceedings, i.e. apply for a summons to be issued.

In your case, the offence witll "time out" 25th November.

When did you receive your S.172? You have to return it within 28 days of receipt. Does the 28 days take you beyond the 25th November?
horseplay
Ok, thanks for explaining.
I recieved it today, the 11th Novemeber, but it is dated the 10th.
Either way, in 28 days the date would be the 7th/8th December ? So this should mean it had timed out

Thanks
CuriousOrange
If it's his car (he's the registered keeper and you were just a named driver on the insurance who only drove it occasionally), he's an ex, this happened five months ago, and you only opened the letter this morning...then how come you remember it was the car's MOT day?

Timing out speeding offences is generally a good thing, but sometimes it can result in them looking a lot more closely at the S172 replies that led to a time out...
desktop_demon
On the facts now stated this is a time out case and all the OP has to do is reply to the s.172 request. As the Op is not th registered keeper there is only a duty to provide what information the OP has that may help identify the driver at the time. The driver may or may not have been OP but that is of littel consequence as long as the s.172 reply is returned correctly (signed and by recorded delivery).
horseplay
Many thanks for all of your help, this seems clearer now.

Curious Orange, I did not remember it was an MOT day, I had a look at the calendar when I opened the letter to see if that would help me establish who was driving.

Thanks everyone smile.gif
CuriousOrange
It's keeper of the vehicle, not registered keeper.

If the OP doesn't ID a driver but provides just the possibilities (which currently is the only honest option), then they most likely end up in court on an S172 charge (which they may or may not defend successfully).

If they name themselves, then all should be well and good provided the authorities have no reason to suspect this is untrue, which is of course dependent partly on if it is true. The OP ought to remember taking the car for its MOT or not.

If they name their ex, who seems to have named them, then with two people naming each other and a timed-out speeding charge I can imagine the authorities trying for an S172 charge against either or both.

If they name the garage, the garage would presumably be S172'd to at least see if their being named was accurate or not. Their response could determine what happened next.

Basically, without knowing exactly what's gone on beforehand with the ex and his original S172 to get this to a seemingly perfect time out, I'd be wary of assuming this will definitely be dealt with so simply as a timed-out speeding CoFP with no S172 prosecution.

andy_foster
The OP's obligation under s. 172(2)(b) RTA 1988 is to provide any information that is in her power to give and that might lead to the driver's identification. However, exercising a degree of diligence would not be a bad idea.

The speeding times out on 25/11/2010. Any s. 172 charge would not time out until approx. 7 months after the date of the notice.
Logician
The OP has said she does not remember who was driving, however her ex has named her as the driver so must believe that she was. She can accept that as information in her possession, and nominate herself as driver sending back the form recorded delivery, keeping a copy, timed to arrive within the 28 day period, ie a few days before 7th December but after 25th November. She should not then be charged with s172, as she has completed the form using the only information in her possession and returned it within the time limit and all she has to do further is decline the offer of a fixed penalty when/if it arrives. A summons cannot lawfully be issued as the six months time limit has expired.
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