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nsm
Hey peeps,

I'm new to this site, so please help me if you can. I have received a PCN from LBHF for parking in a restricted bay.
I was unloading at the time to a nearby address and have a Delivery note.

I have contested the PCN informally using the online challenge form and LBHF have rejected the challenge on the grounds that 6 minutes observation time was given.

Please help me with next steps and course of action to beat this unfair PCN.

Many thanks all cool.gif

Signage showing residents parking only after 6.30 pm in shared use bay.


PCN


Delivery Note coering time in question.



LBHF challenge rejection letter


dave-o
They can believe what they like about how long an observation period is neccesary, but there is no statute to back this up.

If you were truly loading/unloading throughout that time then stick to your guns and fight it.

Always worth getting some pics of the bay markings too.
Bogsy
A delivery note such as that is likely to be accepted by an adjudicator to detemine that on the balance of probablities you were unloading at the time of the contravention. However, the exemption will not apply if you stopped to speak on a phone etc.

Councils routinely spout this 5 minute clap trap but it has no legal basis. Most traffic orders allow for "so long as may be necessary" to load/unload and so it is a question of reasonableness. If you had to carry the cabinet on your own a fair distance and wait for the door to be answered and to wait for the customer to check the goods and sign the paperwork then 5 minutes is not a reasonable time to allow this.

In my view the delivery note trumps the councils 5 minute observation and you will win.

bama
typical bollocks refusal from them

fight on.
nsm
wonderful, i'm far more confident now. thanks a million chaps. wink.gif
will let you know how we get on...
In my view every case the councils lose at PATAS is strengthening the general public's rights as an individual against this council tyrany.


N
dave-o
It's unlikely it'll actually be adjudicated on. It's more a case of bluff.

Anyway, always worth finding more points. Is it possible to get pics of the markings?
DancingDad
interesting that the contravention spans 6 minutes........... lucky it wasn't around midnight else the date of notice would have been even more interesting :-))

Hopefully it was a small filing cabinet BTW.

No matter, fight on but be prepared for more refusals..... could you post the back of the PCN btw
nsm
So i requested the TRO from the council and they rejected the request below.

More grounds for vexatious behaviour..




Also, back of PCN for those who are interested in it. looks fairly standard, but i'm no expert rolleyes.gif



Thanks again to all
Gan
They will not want this in front an adjudicator.

It's a public document and refusal to let you see it or have a copy is an offence.

Turn up unannounced with someone taking notes. Take a copy of the Local Government Act with you and give them twenty minutes to produce the TRO. Make a note of everyone you speak to.

Refusing twice to produce the TRO as well as rejecting your delivery note at an informal appeal will definitely be vexatious.

If they send an NTO, when you appeal that you can tell them that if they reject it you will go to adjudication and seek damages.

bama
"Only by making an appointment" - yeah right.

these are public documents - the entire public has the right to see them.
No appointments needed, no names need be given.
Office hours availability.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/schedule/2/made
roythebus
Remember too they can only charge 10p per sheet for photocopies.

there's been plenty of other "loading" cases on here that have won at tribunal level. Fight on.
nsm
RESOLVED. Hi All who are watching this thread.

i have today received a letter from LBHF which states that a team leader has reviewed my case and on this occasion decided to cancel the PCN.
I wonder if they are actually watching this forum, as the about turn seems coincidental.. ;-)
Anyway, good result altho i was actually looking forward to getting in front of the adjudicator on this one as I was virtually guaranteed to win.

Thanks everyone for your help. It just goes to show that the "5 minute observation time" threat from councils is actually nonsense and should not be used against motorists who are parked whilst delivering goods - as it is our legal right to do so for up to 20 minutes.

;-)
DancingDad
QUOTE (nsm @ Fri, 17 Sep 2010 - 14:21) *
..................- as it is our legal right to do so for up to 20 minutes.

;-)



Well done.
It's actually legal to park loading/unloading for as long as necessary BTW...the trick is justifying what is necessary :-))

How did you get a filing cabinet into a Smart car BTW? :-))
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