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needhelp
Hi guys

Im sorry about any spelling

8months ago i protested my innocence by writing to the traffic police THEY SENT ME A REPLY TO SIGN TO GO COURT WHICH I DID

I was at a junction i was being tailgated and pushed throw an amber light

the officers where on the right side of the junction

they said there light was showing green therefore mine should be showing red

I pleaded guilty by post but after getting advise from numrous people who have been in a similar situation


i went to court in which case they had no officers at present as i pleaded guilty by post

im relly scared and worry

im a sports coach

Also on the document they have my number plate wrong 1 letter

as i phoned up court on a previous occation they have got may have got the date wrong of the alleged crime

Please guys im relly stress will i get hit with a big fine

its obvious they will choose officers over me

Will officers have to turn up
jobo
im at a lost as to what youve been given and where you are in the process and what youve been charged with

but at a guess your up for 3 points and 2 or 3 hundred quid fine
needhelp
Hi

Well court made another date for the officers to come in
im very nervous
i wanted to plead my 3 points for my job

But officers said there light was showing green so my should be showing red

based on assumtions

jobo
do you want to actually tell us in chronological order what has happened ?

its only three points, unless they give you a short ban instead
iwt
Hi.
Pushed? There was physical contact?
Might suggest revisit the junction to record the sequence of lights. And note down/take photos from their point of view; could they see the line?
It's possible your light changed to red after you'd passed the point at which you could see the lights?
If you plead guilty by post, was this formally entered, or did you retract your guilty plea and go not guilty?
Minor errors such as date and numberplate are unlikely to help unless they are prejudicial to your defence.
If you've gone NG, you should be sent/have been given the prosecution bundle. This will contain the statements the prosecution intends to rely on. You are, I believe, entitled to object to the prosecution relying on these statements as-is, on the basis you wish to cross examine them.
--
Regards, Iain.
needhelp
No not physical contact

but the car behind was on my tail

The officers said they light was showing green then mine must be red

they also stated i put no lives at risk

but getting a number plate wrong regardless if its one letter they can surely make other mistakes

i just hope and prey the officers do not turn up
jobo
3rd time

tell us what has happened so far re your court case
Logician
Your post is far from easy to understand, but what I make of it is this:
You came up to traffic lights with another vehicle close behind you.
The lights changed to amber but you felt it was dangerous to try to stop with the other vehicle so close, so you went through on amber.
Police officers on another road stopped you and said that as the light their way was green when you went across the junction, you must have gone through on the red.
First of all you pleaded guilty by post, then you changed your mind, so you were told to go to court.
At court, the case could not go ahead because the police officers were not there.
Now you have been given a new date to go to court.

If anything about this is wrong, please say.

Some questions:
When do you have to go to court?
Have you been sent any papers which include statements from the police officers about what they saw?
Did the vehicle that was tailgating you also cross the junction when you did?
needhelp
I was coming towards traffic lights towords a junction

officers where on the right side of the junction

as i go on to the other side


officers pulled me over

said i went throw red light

i told them i will protest this in court etc

which i did

but i gave in at some point and pleaded guilty by post

so court could not let the case go on as i did not plead guilty i said not guilty

they have arranged another cout date with officers

but they have no evidence agiants me except my word vs officers in this case they will win

but they have made mistakes with number plates etc

Logician
A mistake of one letter in the number plate does not matter, you and they both know you were there in your car.
Please answer the questions.
needhelp
Yes thats pretty much it

sorry about my english

i feel scared for my life

as for the 3points it will effect my jobs

the van that was tailgating me done a youturn or went stright ahead im not 100% sure

but they have no evidence except words

will they do me over badly

i go court next month

yes i been sent a statment

it says there lights where showing green and they went back to the junction to check the cycle 3times
Logician
Is there just one offence on the summons, "Failing to comply with a traffic sign" or something similar, or does it say anything else?
If it is just that, then the penalty, if you are found guilty, is a fine of half your net weekly income and 3 points. It is very unlikely that 3 points will affect anything, as long as you have not got any others. So many people now have points that insurance companies do not worry too much about it.
The police officers will say what they saw, and you can question them, for instance about the vehicle tailgating you, if it was so close they must have seen it. You can ask if they saw you cross the stop line, or deduce when it was, if so is it possible that you actually crossed the stop line at the lights while they were still amber, and changed to red while you were on the crossing.
As IWT said, you should go back to the junction yourself, and see what the sequence is and if that is possible.
needhelp
This incident happand at the start of the year
Logician
Is there just one offence on the summons, "Failing to comply with a traffic sign" or something similar, or does it say anything else?
needhelp
contravening the res traffic light

im so stress i have hardly any cash
Logician
Well then the maximum penalty, if you are found guilty, is a fine of half your net weekly income and 3 points. It is very unlikely that 3 points will affect anything, as long as you have not got any others. So many people now have points that insurance companies do not worry too much about it.

Try to calm down, or you will not do yourself credit in court. You are a sports coach, you must have helped people calm down before an important event. If you really feel you cannot handle this, then you still have the option of simply pleading guilty, and you will get some reduction from the fine.

Otherwise, it would be useful if you could post up here the officer's statement, leaving out anything that identifies them, or you, or your vehicle.
needhelp
officer statment

when we was stationary at a set of red ats junction with ........ as our lights went from amber to green we started to move forword.our lights then changed to green and i saw a red...... number plate........... go throw the lights controlling traffic from ley street onto the ... turning right

at this time danger to road users was not caused

we then returned to the same junction where we viewed the same ats signals carry through at least 3 cycles and on each occation the signal phasing appeared correct accurate there are not exhibits relating to this matther
Logician
Questions to ask the officer:

1. From your statement, it seems you did not actually see me cross the stop line, so as far as you are concerned I might have crossed the stop line when the lights were amber my way, is that not so?

2. I was not able to stop at the amber because I was being closely tail-gated by another vehicle, did you not see that other vehicle?

3. Please explain the comment in your statement that danger to other road users was not caused, since you say I went through a red light.
needhelp
Thank you so much
any more questions

Do you think i have a strong case?
Logician
QUOTE (needhelp @ Wed, 1 Sep 2010 - 15:59) *
Do you think i have a strong case?

Sorry, but no, I don't think you have. I think you got bad advice about changing your plea.
needhelp
But surely they have no proof what so ever
peterguk
QUOTE (needhelp @ Wed, 1 Sep 2010 - 21:08) *
But surely they have no proof what so ever


"Proof" as in photographic evidence is not needed in order to successfully prosecute. The evidence of the officers will be heard, and it is for the court to decide what weight they put on that evidence following any challenge by the defence.
nemo
QUOTE (needhelp @ Wed, 1 Sep 2010 - 21:08) *
But surely they have no proof what so ever

They have their statements, you will have yours. How much weight will be applied to each will rest with the magistrates.

To avoid conviction, you will likely have to discredit the evidence of two serving police officers, or at least introduce reasonable doubt as to their version of events.
needhelp
I relly dont understand there statment
peterguk
QUOTE (needhelp @ Thu, 2 Sep 2010 - 08:30) *
I relly dont understand there statment


From the quote you have given us, it sounds as though what they are saying is that they had green light and therefore right of way, and at the same time, you went through the junction whilst your lights were red.
needhelp
But that does not make sense

So cause there light was showin green mine was showing red

surely thats based on assumtions and no real proof

If there lights where showing green then there would be other cars moving off from there side since they have 3 lanes

if i had gone throw red surely other road users would be in dangor
Transit man
QUOTE (needhelp @ Thu, 2 Sep 2010 - 09:03) *
if i had gone throw red surely other road users would be in dangor

What they are saying by not being dangerous, is that there were no other vehicles in the vicinity to be put in danger at the time you jumped the lights, but that your actions could have been potentially dangerous given other circumstances.
needhelp
So then im going to get charged guilty sad.gif im only 24 have hardly any cash and the 3points will effect my job
AFCNEAL
Few employers will dismiss for the first/only 3 points - you may have a reasonable case at an employment tribunal if they do! The fine will be as described and the Courts are usually agreeable to a scale of payments (£x per week for Y weeks) so they won't lock you up if you don't pay on the spot.

Focus upon your defence not the consequences.
needhelp
But there is a chance i could be found not guilty or the officers not turning up
jobo
theres quite a good chance, based on my experience of the officers not turning up

after that you have a punchers chance of it going your way

nb be aware you have to reject the officers statment
needhelp
i just hope and prey they dont turn up
jobo
indeed but you need to put in a bit more effort than prayer

pictures of the polices view of the junction the timing of the lights, calcs of how far across the junction you would have been when their lights went green will all help

nb, you will mostly likely only get one copper anyway,, so its your word against one not two, have you rejected their statments yet
needhelp
Thank you jobo

I have got photos

I just need time of the traffic lights
jobo
QUOTE (jobo @ Thu, 2 Sep 2010 - 13:58) *
i have you rejected their statments yet
needhelp
how do i reject a statement
jobo
in the summons pack will be a form to accept the statement or require the attendance of witness

you usually send this back with the plea, it usually requires you to do this in 7 days, but this seem open to negotiation ?

also note the first date given for the case will be a plea hearing,,, no witnessess will attend, just enter plea and go home

you can do this by post but its worth going oif you can to sus out the court anf get used to being their
needhelp
no i have not done this but i have informed on a serparate letter that the officers statement seems to be many mistake also i told the judge that the statments are untrue
jobo
What judge ?

do you mean the mags or the legal adviser

was this at the plea hearing

hopeful they have taken this as, requiring the attendance of witnesses ?

sorry reread thread

yes your getting the police there, good
needhelp
yes most likely the police will turn up
im very nervous
jobo
youve got your self this far and now havent got much to loose to be honest

the points remain the same and the difference between a guilty plea and an unsuccessfully not guilty please will be about a 100 quid or so

so you might as well go for it, ive taken dafter things top court and won

but you need to prepare well
needhelp
do you think i could get a free solictor
nemo
QUOTE (needhelp @ Thu, 2 Sep 2010 - 20:29) *
do you think i could get a free solictor

You might find a solictor who will give you a 10 minute telephone consultation without charge, but that's likely to be the best you can hope for.
needhelp
the court time is 9:45 very early so hopefully they wont turn up
jimster
QUOTE (needhelp @ Thu, 2 Sep 2010 - 21:42) *
the court time is 9:45 very early so hopefully they wont turn up


That’s the time you have to be at the court, but your case may not be heard till much later.

Probably everyone who is appearing that day will have been told the same time

needhelp
damnnnn
needhelp
so upset


got 3 points and 225 fine

two officers turned up

they both had storys moddled up

in statments they said them when i was by myself

i also mentioned the number plate they got a digit wrong


but still they had no video evidence nothing

just a load of bs

now im sitting here depressed for a crime i had not done

im currently not working

and have to pay the total fine in 28days

i said to the judge i have no job or anything but still not allowed
jobo
hard luck

did you present your pictures and map etc
needhelp
yes showed them the maps a picture
jobo
and ?
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