Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: [NIP Wizard] SOS- 115mph on M6- Non UK Student
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Shri
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2010
Date of the NIP: - 72 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 74 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - lockerbie
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Rented the car
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I had rented the car and was on my way back from scotland to Lancaster. I was speeding at 115mph on a 70 mph road. I was stopped by police car and was asked to sit in the rear seat and was briefed my offence. I was ignorant of the law at that time and I accepted my mistake and I pleaded guilty for it. I accept the offence and I am pleading guilty for it. I am also a international student, I dont have an Uk driving license, in my country my driving history has been clean and I have never been involved in an offence.

I have received a citation to attend the court hearing on 16 august or reply to a form attached. my current financial situation does not allow me to pay the fine imposed, rather I am ok with a ban for a specific period of time.


Since i am full time student and I dont work full time or part time, my education and living expenses is being funded by the bank. I wont be able to pay the fine how ever I am ready to serve short time ban from driving in the UK.

Need your guidance in drafting an explanation to the court.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:25:44 +0000
Logician
A UK driving record will be created on which your ban will be recorded. You will definitely get a ban. Depending on your home country you may need to get a UK licence, for some countries you can drive indefinitely on your home licence, for others only for one year.
Shri
Thanks for the reply.

1. Can some one tell me what would be the approx fine for driving at 115mph for non uk/EU citizen with no income or student?
2. I cant afford to go scotland for the case hearing, the citation say i can also respond through the attached form, there is phrase which says please enclose your driving license, I dont want to send my driving license with it as I am going back to my country on 29th aug and the hearing is on 16th, not sure if they would return my license.
3. Can I get away with ban and not paying the fine> I dont mind traveling in public trnasport as I am not going to make Uk my home, once my education is over i will leave the country.

Please advice me as I booked my flight tickets back home 3 months earlier, did not expect this to happen

Logician
You can fill in the form and I would suggest you write in a covering letter that you have not enclosed you driving licence as it is not a UK licence. Say also that you will be out of the country from 29th August and state when you will be back. They are likely to decide at the hearing that they cannot deal with the matter because of the very high speed and ask you to come to court on a date in the future. If you get such a letter you can write back saying that you cannot afford to travel to Scotland and invite them to disqualify you in your absence if they are so minded. You will definitely get a fine, but it is impossible to say how much because your speed is off the scale, and in Scotland things are different anyway. The court will no doubt say that you are living on something, and you could afford to hire a car and drive to Scotland, so are not completely impoverished.

Shri
Actually I have no plans of coming back as my education is completed. Can I make an appearance to the court and ask them for short or long term ban on my driving and not disclose the fact that i wont be returning to the country? Will I be able to the get away with the fine, my education is funded by my govt and the car rent was shared by 5 of us where in the car.
ford poplar
Shri, your best bet is to appear in person at the Court hearing, travel by bus or train & explain you have a foreign licence, take it with you. They cannot endorse a foreign licence (yet) so will create a ghost UK licence for the points or ban & the key licence if you drive in the UK in the next 5 yrs
There is no way IMO you can avoid the fine (say min £200+)
If you say you cannot/wil not pay the consequences could escalate for non-payment.
You have 2-4 weeks to earn sufficient money, cash in hand, to pay the fine & a final trip to Scotland, before you leave.
mickR
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Thu, 29 Jul 2010 - 01:31) *
You have 2-4 weeks to earn sufficient money, cash in hand, to pay the fine & a final trip to Scotland, before you leave.


surely there is no such thing!

Shri did you have to obtain a visa to come here? if so does it exclude working? you cannot earn money to pay a fine if you are legally excluded from paid work.
andy_foster
Am I right in thinking that you have a citation which allows you to plead guilty by post at a hearing 13 days before you will be leaving the UK for good, never to return?

Whilst you cannot legally avoid the fine, you'll be long gone by the time they expect you to attend to be banned, so they can't enforce the fine unless you come back to the UK.
Shri
Thanks a lot for the replies.
yes I am in student visa and I am not legally allowed to work here for more than 20 hours and my examinations are fast approaching and I have the dissertation as well. Guess I have to take decision of going in person or responding by post. I am worried that if i respond by post and they send me another letter but i am not in uK, THEY CHASE ME ALL THE WAY DOWN TO MY country. can that happen?
Shri
Guys,

I am attending court on the 16th, Extremely nervous about it. when given a chance to explain i am going to say the following.

1. Plead guilty
2. inform the sheriff that I am an international student and I was new to the country. it was my first drive in the uk.
3. The original plan was go by train, but had to cancel it bcs of the tickets cost, I did not have much to read the rules of the law( which i accept is fault).
4. I have no previous records on my license either in uk or in my home country.
5. since i am holding a student visa, am not legally allowed to work till jan2011, and my avg bank balance has been consistently under £100, hence i wont be able to afford to pay hefty fines ( i am taking my 4 months bank statement)
6. am looking for a job and as soon as start working what ever is the fine amount i shall repay it in installement.
Shri
I just re-read my citation I have been charged for

1) section 2 of road traffic act of 1988- reckless or dangerous driving, because the cops saw stones/.pebbles thown up and repeatedly applying breaks.

or alternatively. ( am not aware of such event)

2) motor traffic regulation 1974, regulation 3 and road traffic regulation act 1984, sec 17(4)- exceeding the speed of 70mph at a speed of 115mph.

need your guidance to know what are the likely consequences.
The Rookie
The Dangerous puts a whole new perspective on it......
I'm not very up on that so will leave that to others!

For information, as a student your fine will be based on an income of £100per week unless you earn more, for the speeding ONLY the fine would be expected to be around 125% of that. less 1/3 for an early guilty plea, one assumes if you can afford to rent a car, you can afford the fine.

Simon
Shri
I am so scared, some internet sites say i would be imprisoned. pls help me
southpaw82
QUOTE (Shri @ Thu, 12 Aug 2010 - 18:07) *
I am so scared, some internet sites say i would be imprisoned. pls help me


Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Dangerous driving can result in a prison sentence but it would be unusual to be imprisoned for a first offence.
TomCI
Hi,

Just seen this so thought I would register and give you a hand.

I found myself in a similar situation this time last year, being a non UK/EU citizen (Channel Islands) and getting caught in England doing 111mph in a 70mph limit (dual carriage way) driving my own car and had all documentation with me, by an unmarked police car. I was caught bang to rights as he pulled me over and I sat in the front with him (was actually a firearms officer on his own and a few confiscated shotguns in the back!) and had a rather nice chat as he showed me the evidence against me so I was rather happy to accept I was in the wrong and plead guilty there and then.

Might I add at this point that he made it quite clear to me during this conversation that I was only going to be charged with speeding and not dangerous driving which, from further investigation will make a huge difference in our situations depending on what you are being charged with. This was because traffic was pretty light, good weather and visibility however 111mph was my average speed under braking so I consider myself very lucky on that count. All of these small details will make a big difference in your case.

I went on my way, surprised at not being taken to the station, staying on the mainland for another 5 days then returning home. A few weeks after getting home I received a summons asking to me to attend court or advise otherwise. I simply wrote a letter to the court saying I could not attend as I was working so plead guilty by post and awaited a response. It got adjourned a few times because they couldn't decide what to do with my case and I kept responding by letter each time it was rescheduled and eventually they gave me a £500 fine which included legal costs and some faintly ridiculous victims tax or something and 6 points. There is a good chance the fine you incur will not be as mine as I am in full time employment with a reasonable salary and not a student with no regular income as yourself. This was all done by me representing myself too (I have no legal experience) and at no point did I take legal counsel so it cost me nothing in that respect.

The case was handed to the DVLA to endorse my license which was not possible as the DVLA have no authority over my jurisdiction so never got any points or bans or endorsements and I can still drive in the UK and obviously at home. Apparently it is illegal for them to issue me a UK license to then ban straight away as it is illegal to hold two licenses (apparently) with me still holding my license from my home country.

Apologies for the long winded response but I thought it best to get as many facts in as possible for comparison to your own circumstances. My intention was to try and put your mind at rest as I was absolutely bricking it from the moment I saw his lights flashing in my mirror to when I read the final letter from the courts which determined my fate and I thought the outcome to be much less severe than I was expecting. May I add that I certainly have learnt my lesson and wont be doing it again!

Hope all this helps and best of luck thumbsup.gif

Tom
ford poplar
For Non-UK licence holders (not sure about EU ones) I believe the DVLA create a 'ghost' uk licence for endorsements, points etc gained in the UK.
TomCI
I was warned that could be the case but as mentioned, apparently not. I called the DVLA to explain I could not send them my license as they had no authority over it and they then told me, and I quote,

'not to worry I have closed the case for you, no further action will be taken'

I have had no further correspondence from them since and have not been informed of any ghost license being held on their systems in my name which I would of thought they have a legal obligation to inform me about.
peterguk
QUOTE (TomCI @ Fri, 13 Aug 2010 - 23:37) *
I was warned that could be the case but as mentioned, apparently not. I called the DVLA to explain I could not send them my license as they had no authority over it and they then told me, and I quote,

'not to worry I have closed the case for you, no further action will be taken'

I have had no further correspondence from them since and have not been informed of any ghost license being held on their systems in my name which I would of thought they have a legal obligation to inform me about.


The UK DVLA create "ghost" licences, with endorsements, for non-UK DL holders. As does France, Germany and probably other EU countries. Regardless of what they told you.

ETA

AIUI, a "ghost" licence is simply a record of name, given address and points awarded.
TomCI
Apologies for hijacking briefly but if I contacted the DVLA, will they provide me with information on record for me then?

I am slightly concerned as I am due to visit again soon and don't particularly want to be pulled over time and time again when I do.
southpaw82
QUOTE (TomCI @ Fri, 13 Aug 2010 - 23:17) *
The case was handed to the DVLA to endorse my license which was not possible as the DVLA have no authority over my jurisdiction so never got any points or bans or endorsements and I can still drive in the UK and obviously at home. Apparently it is illegal for them to issue me a UK license to then ban straight away as it is illegal to hold two licenses (apparently) with me still holding my license from my home country.


No. A driving disqualification has effect regardless of any licence you may or may not hold. You (as a holder of a Guernsey/Jersey licence) can be disqualified in the UK - if you then drive in the UK during your period of disqualification you commit an imprisonable offence.
TomCI
This is all news to me and the operator at the DVLA has done a poor job of explaining this to me as I was informed that this was not the case. I shall give them a call on Monday to enquire as to my current status on their records.

Many thanks for informing me of this.
peterguk
QUOTE (TomCI @ Fri, 13 Aug 2010 - 23:57) *
This is all news to me and the operator at the DVLA has done a poor job of explaining this to me as I was informed that this was not the case. I shall give them a call on Monday to enquire as to my current status on their records.

Many thanks for informing me of this.


A "ghost" licence is nothing more than a record of your name, given address and points awarded.

I happen to have 6 points when in France. 2 more speeding offences in France and i would be banned from driving in France, but nowhere else.
Shri
Thanks a ton Tom, I am feeling much better now. I am also worried if the court keeps adjourning my case as I would be returning back to my country for good and I dont have any immediate plans of returning back. In that case will the correspondence be made to my home country to the local UK address?

TomCI
As you are actually attending there is a better chance of it being resolved there and then I would of thought but then logic sometimes doesnt count for much these days. If they do adjourn and you return back to your home country then just advise them of the situation and they will send correspondence to your home address. For something like this I wouldnt of thought they will take your passport off you!

Do you know if its just speeding or dangerous driving too? As previously mentioned, if its dangerous driving you are up for it is a whole new ball game and well beyond me and would suggest you get some legal advise.

Cheers

Tom
Shri
Finally, I am able to breath normally.

I attended court yesterday, was the ahead by an hours time, gave me time to go round the court, made friends with user and few staff in the front office. Explained them my situation. I was given a white paper and was asked to prepare notes to defend myself in front of the sheriff. At 10.00 I went inside the court room and was anxiously waiting for the sheriff to come, to my surprise the usher quietly came in and called me out. he had spoken to a solicitor which was quite interested to handle my case for free.

My name was called, i had to go and stand in front of the judge, i was asked to introduce myself. The sheriff read out my two charges and I pleaded guilty for both. The solicitor spoke for one minute, not sure what he spoke. Then the sheriff read out my sentence, my original fine was £1200, with 1 yr disqualification, but when he heard my circumstances it was reduced to £270. payable in 6 instalment with £50 p.m. i was disqualified from driving for 1 year which i really dont care as am still a student and live inside the campus.

Glad it ended like this. Thanks for all your support. Certainly a lesson learnt and I shall never repeat it in my life.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.