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produr
Oh dear this one will be colmplicated ......

My colegues mother died last year and the 'estate' had to be sold. making him homeless for a short time for which he stayed with me. several bits of correspondance had to be adressed to my home includin vehicles etc etc. .He now lives in southern ireland.
I have been forwarding his mail which now has been deminishing until May this year. he has been using a vehicle that was registerd at my home in ireland.
I'm a mechanic by trade and in May we met up for me to repair the said vehicle which was now out of road tax. for me to conduct the repairs i had the vehicle brought down to south wales. repairs commenced and took a little longer to fix meaning i had to tax the vehicle in my name (ie surrender the logbook at the po) and insurance so i could drive about in and ultimatly deliver it back with consent ( not having trade plates)
Vehicle was deliverd back, everything fine . until

I get a nip from north wales speeding on a gatso.

fill in the form, as i know who the driver is and he is happy to take the 'rap'

next thing I get is a summons under 143 (2) for allowing a uninsured driver as the address, his correct at the time was in dublin

Not a problem until I Can't get hold of him, his insurance Co won't give me insurance details and North Wales plod have a selection of chocolate teapots to chose from ie not helpful by saying in laymans terms fill in the form and get evidence that i cant get.

any suggestions ? im going to plead not guilty as i am not guilty. as i know there was irish insurance on the vehicle as the green square on the screen was valid and that it coverd for the uk. how on earth do i get evidence?

The gatso photos are dreadful !!!

advice welcome
jobo
you must have missed a bit out ?

they must have asked you to show insurance before giving you a summons

what is the time line betwen you returning the car, the speeding and the nips arival,

dont suppose you put it back in his name after return or that you can show it was exported ?

this comes up a lot, the difference between owner, RK and keeper and it gets a bit complex
CuriousOrange
I don't follow this at all.

I'll guess that "he has been using a vehicle that was registerd at my home in ireland" means registered at your home address in south Wales and used in Ireland, not that you have a home in Ireland.

He was staying with you while homeless, so I can understand why he changed the registration document to your home address, but why is your name on it instead of his?

He drove it down to South Wales, but went home because repairs took longer than expected, and you drove it back to Ireland? The NIP is for a date before you taxed it?

I disagree slightly with Jobo above in that arguments over RK/owner/keeper can sometimes be beside the point, in that the law is "a person must not cause or permit" i.e. you don't necessarily have to be found to be one of the above to be guilty. The question is why they've decided you've caused/permitted, and I'd again guess that at the moment they just think it's your car and you've named someone abroad, which usually results in the question of insurance. As said, it surely didn't go straight from your response to the NIP to a summons for permitting, so what happened in the meantime?

At the moment, what with the car being registered/taxed in your name, what have you got to show that he was driving the car about in Ireland before the offence and brought in over on the ferry? I take it that at teh very least his name is showing on the V5C as the previous registered keeper?

Logician
You say "Vehicle was deliverd back, everything fine . until I get a nip from north wales speeding on a gatso. fill in the form, as i know who the driver is and he is happy to take the 'rap'"

From this I take it that you arranged for someone else to drive the car up through North Wales to take the ferry to Ireland, is that right?
And you believe that whatever insurance the owner may have in Ireland for the vehicle covers another driver in the UK, when the vehicle has been registered to you in the UK? I am not familiar with how Irish insurance works, what is the significance of the green square on the windscreen?
What insurance did you have on the vehicle so that you could tax it?
The Rookie
The way I read it, the OP registered the car at his address to get it taxed, the original owner took posession and now has the car back, but the RK details were not changed (OPs bad).

Is the RK responsible for permitting? (thinking hire/lease cars here were they can't reasonably be and that is the situation most akin to the one stated here)

Simon
CuriousOrange
Why register the car in the OP's name to get it taxed?

You need the V5C and an insurance certificate in respect of the vehicle being taxed (plus the MOT when needed), but it doesn't need to be the insured's name on the V5C.

I don't think the OP's given anywhere near the full story.
jobo
QUOTE (CuriousOrange @ Tue, 20 Jul 2010 - 13:36) *
Why register the car in the OP's name to get it taxed?

You need the V5C and an insurance certificate in respect of the vehicle being taxed (plus the MOT when needed), but it doesn't need to be the insured's name on the V5C.


I have a feeling it does, or at least thats what post office counters be;lieve
spanner345
QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 20 Jul 2010 - 12:43) *
QUOTE (CuriousOrange @ Tue, 20 Jul 2010 - 13:36) *
Why register the car in the OP's name to get it taxed?

You need the V5C and an insurance certificate in respect of the vehicle being taxed (plus the MOT when needed), but it doesn't need to be the insured's name on the V5C.


I have a feeling it does, or at least thats what post office counters be;lieve


Not true, I have taxed a few of my own vehicles on a trader's policy. The two names are not the same.
The Rookie
Indeed, I think the issue is that you can't use a generic third party extension to tax a car, and the PO counters seem badly trained and just state it has to be in the insureds name, use the same online and it just says its insured at the check and goes straight through.

Simon
jobo
po counter refuse point blank to issue tax if your name is not on the v5( though will accept if you filled in the new keeper bit on the back), even if you have insurance specific to the car,,, this is prob not a legal requirement ??? but is what they commonly do
CuriousOrange
We have friendlier Post Office counter types down here then.

If the OP signed up to be RK when they taxed it, and the alleged offence was before they took delivery of it (since they seem to be saying they delivered it back, unless as Logician is suggesting it was someone else from Ireland??), then they can easily point out that at the time of the alleged offence they weren't the registered keeper and there'll be nothing else to label them as someone in a position to cause or permit.

Strange though that, since the offence is surely some days before the taxing/RK change, the first NIP didn't go to the colleague but instead got straight to the OP so quickly?

If the offence was someone else on the return journey, you'd still expect the first NIP to go awry given the RK change yet the summons for permitting has dropped on the map pretty quickly (if it is a summons).

I think the forum's having to do far too much guesswork.
Logician
Yes, we need further and better particulars!
Lew
What people are missing is the fact the vehicle was registered in SOUTHERN IRELAND - a totally seperate country and not affiliated with DVLA in any way whatsoever
Alarm bells are ringing here, because to "tax the car here" he'd have had to fill in a form legally importing the vehicle, and then export it again when it was finished.

It was definately registered in Southern Ireland because its the law there that you have to have a tax disc in the window of the car showing it was taxed.
(mentioned in the hard to read description of what happened)

Was the poster covered by the Irish insurance policy? did they import the vehicle legally and get a DVLA V5c and tax it here? and then export it afterwards? I cant see that myself somehow.
I think the story is a bit confusing.

The Rookie
Until the OP returns to tell the fuller story, I guess there is a lot of guesswork.........

Simon
CuriousOrange
I think everyone here knows that Eire has nothing to do with the DVLA, but from the story the colleague was originally resident over here with the car until they moved to Ireland so it seemed that the car was still registered with the DVLA even though they were driving it over there. Does a green square mean then a car has to be registered in Ireland?  

One also has to wonder why someone would bring it all the way back to South Wales for repairs.

Confusing is a polite word for this story.  wink.gif  

Lew
The green square is the insurance sticker in the window (Irish insurance)
Similar to this (only used on Southern Irish registered cars)
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