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c.ramsay
Evening all,

Two days ago I was pulled over by a regular police patrol car for apparently running a red light. The junction in question involved myself coming towards it with the police car sitting at the lights to the right of the crossroads.

There are traffic lights on each side of the junction, both pointing towards my car. The white line was obviously at the first set of traffic lights. However, the patrol car was unable to see these lights and was only able to view the second, further away lights. The officer told me he had seen 3 cars and myself go through the red light, however, he was looking at the furthest away set of lights. I believe the lights were at amber when I actually crossed the stop line. By the time I had passed over the junction and passed the second lights, they had turned to red.

I am wondering whether to contest the charge or not. I am sure the lights I was looking at (the lights at the white stop line) were at amber when I crossed the line, and only changed once I was mid way across the junction. I am aware that amber also means to stop however with heavily congested traffic I did believe it was unsafe to do so.

I've attached links of google street view:

My view from the car:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...=12,303.25,,0,5

As you can see, the traffic lights at the left of the screen are the lights I was observing, with the white stop line. The police car was only able to see the furthest away traffic lights which are a good distance across the junction from the white stop line itself.

Here is the view the police officer had:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...,255.48,,0,5.42

The traffic lights he was able to view are on the right side of the road next to the pedestrian crossing. From his perspective I was approaching from left to right across the junction.

I hope the pictures help this make sense, I'm just seeking opinions and if I have no case then so be it.

Many thanks
glasgow_bhoy
Were you going across the junction there or turning left? Doubt it was right seeing as your not allowed to at that junction (I think)
I fail to see how the officer made the decision you went through the red. Go back to the junction and look at the sequencing. Many of the lights on GWR are one direction at a time. So if the police were opposite you it would be impossible for them to see your lighting sequence (if that is the case)
captain swoop
from the description and the pictures the cops were at 90 degrees to the Op not opposite, they could see the Ops lights change.
Logician
Presumably the far lights to you change at the same time as those closer? The officer would presumably say if questioned that although he could not see the stop line from where he was, he could see the poles of the traffic lights and knows the position of the stop line in relation to them. This seems to me quite difficult to defend, basically your memory/opinion against the officer's.
c.ramsay
Yeah the police were at 90 degrees from myself. I was going straight across the junction and the police were on the road to the right of me.

I knew he couldn't see the lights closest to me from his angle.

It was mainly because he had said he watched 3 cars go through the red light (the lights he could see) that I knew he couldn't have been looking in my direction at the time I crossed the white stop line.

As I said, just seeking opinions. Many Thanks

Oh, was also wondering, if I were to argue the light was at amber when I crossed the line, would I then have the burden of proving it was unsafe to stop, or, as I was only charged with failing to obey a red light (as stated on the ticket) would the charge in question simply be dropped?
nemo
QUOTE (c.ramsay @ Tue, 22 Jun 2010 - 00:15) *
Oh, was also wondering, if I were to argue the light was at amber when I crossed the line, would I then have the burden of proving it was unsafe to stop,

No.

QUOTE (c.ramsay @ Tue, 22 Jun 2010 - 00:15) *
or, as I was only charged with failing to obey a red light (as stated on the ticket) would the charge in question simply be dropped?

If the magistrates found in your favour (or concluded that there was reasonable doubt as to your guilt), then you would be acquitted.

There was a similar case in my local magistrates' court a while ago. A twenty-something girl was accused of failing to comply with a red light at a cross road junction (a police officer was sat waiting at the lights 90 degrees to the accused's).

The accused declined the fixed penalty she had been offered and opted for court. She re-visited the site before the case was heard, took plenty of pictures from a variety of angles and insisted upon the officer's attendance on the day of the trial.

At trial, she questioned the officer and was able to demomstrate that he could not have seen her traffic light from his position in the queue. Despite the officer's repeated assertions that he was 'well trained' and 'had over 30 years experience', the magistrates found with the defendant, decided that a conviction would have been unsafe and she was found not guilty.

I'm certainly not saying that's what would happen in your case; I'm simply demonstrating that with good preparation and a cool head, winning such a case is not impossible.
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