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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] Please help - Double NIP over a year ago has came back to haunt me!
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Smoot
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - April 2009
Date of the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Currently Unsure
Was the NIP addressed to you? -
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Ok this is a bit of a long one, Ive completed the NIP wizard above there but some of the details I had to guess since my particular case was some time ago.

On roughly the 23rd March last year I got an NIP through for doing 44 in a 30mph zone – I completed it and sent it back

A week or so later, I got an NIP through for doing 62mph in the same place (same camera) - I completed it and sent it back.

(these are the big obvious yellow cameras by the way (not the gatso’s))

I honestly don’t think I was doing either of those speeds since it was a road I drove for 4 months prior to these incidents twice a day every day, and I had never managed to speed before.

My other point – is that the area in which the camera is located has numerous signs saying it is a 40MPH zone, not 30, so I was quite confused when I got the NIP saying it was 44 in a 30, when I was sure it was a 40!

Concerned I was, so I went out and took pictures of the signs and the area surrounding the camera to properly show that it was a 40 zone, not a 30 – I still have these pictures.

I thought they realized this error since I haven’t heard anything more about the two offences since then until today….

So a lot of time has passed and today a policeman arrived on my door, told me there was a warrant for my arrest and said it was for a ‘failure to appear’ and it was surrounding a speeding charge.
He told me he wasn’t going to arrest me because I had a stable job, no prior convictions and he didn’t think I was going anywhere (how nice)

However he tells me that I have to ring my local courts tomorrow to arrange a time to go to court to get this sorted.

So I’m going to do that tomorrow, since I don’t want to get arrested!

What im wondering is, what is my best course of action here?

Do I plead Not guilty and show the pictures of the camera being set wrong at 30? Instead of 40?

Do I plead guilty and ask for mitigating circumstances, since its my first offence, I’ve had my license for 3 years, im a teacher and I need my car to get to work?

Any help would really be appreciated here, im very troubled.

Rich


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 19:42:36 +0000
Smoot
I've jsut went onto streetview and the camera is still there, along with a sign beside it saying 40!

heres a quick screenprint of the location (sorry for the large picture)

(removed)
RDA
Did you really intend to post a screen dump of your Facebook home page ?
Smoot
Im sorry - i forgot that when you press Printscreen on a multi-display computer it captures all of them. ITS THE MIDDLE ONE THATS INTERESTING.

Sorry - my mind is a little frazzled
jobo
it would seem likely ? that they have proceeded in your absence and convicted you

in which case, completing a statutory decelerations to have it reverted back to summons stage

or

that either or both of these will take you to 12 points and they want you to attend so they can ban you

or they are infact chasing you for non payment of fine

youl find out tomorrow

have you any idea what might have happened to two summons
Smoot
At that time last year i was living in sheffield, and had just owned the car in which the offence was commited. Having just bought it - it was registered at my home address in Northern Ireland.

So correspondance (the NIPs) came to my home address where a family memeber forwarded them to me, any further correspondance should have gone their also - but i've honestly heard nothing from them since the two NIPs were completed.

jobo
its a pain but not a huge problem, you should be able to get it reverted back to summons if they have convicted and if not get a copy summons and a date for the hearing

then we can look at you defence

what address did you give on the 172/ nip returns you sent them

NB you definitely sent them back, didnt you
Zed Victor One
As jobo said you need to get it reverted back to summons so that you can know what offences you are being dealt with for, i.e. Section 172 or the excess speeds and then prepare an appropriate defence. Sadly even if you sent them back it doesn't guarantee that they got them and this may have been the start of the real problems. Get it put back to court and at least you have a chance to defend the accusations.

Kickaha
You say you have held your licence for 3 years.

If any of the offences were within two years of passing your test, 6 points would see your licence revoked under the new drivers act sad.gif .
Smoot
OK some updates...

to cut a very long story short - apparently I cant deal with this in the local court in Kings Lynn, I have to go to Sheffield.

I was directed to call the warrants/courts people in Sheffield (0114 252 1865) by my local authority, which I have done.

Basically they’ve told me I should surrender myself to the police in Sheffield. I’ve been told to go in on Monday morning and surrender myself so I will be able to be taken to court in the AM or PM session of Monday.

They told me that I had to surrender myself due to the length of time my warrant was issued for (and were surprised that I hadn’t been arrested by the police officer who came to see me on Wednesday)

They also informed me that my original summons(s) were both for the 6th October where I was being called in for the excess spoeed at which i was travelling - im pretty sure they talked about disqualification here too.

So – I’m going to do that, they told me I would be entitled to whatever solicitor is on duty there and I should bring any items of evidence with me that I wished to use.

I assume at this time I get to plead Guilty or Not guilty – I’m not sure really what to do yet since I’m unsure the speed camera I thought flashed me actually did, it may have been a different one)

I rang up to check exactly what speed camera it was and all they could say was ‘Langsett Road South’ and I’ve had a look on Google Streetview and cant see any Stationary cameras there, I’m quite bamboozled as to which one it was. Is it too late to request a picture? Is that something they will have already? How do I go about doing this?

I’m really scared about this and would like any advice as to what I should do next – I’m about to travel up to see my partner in Sheffield now where I will spend the weekend before going in on Monday – but I will have Internet access to check for replies.

Any help would be forever appreciated

Richard
jobo
dont get too stressed about it,

it seems your summons( s) went astray

the last question i asked was which address you used or indeed have you moved since ?

they will arrest you and either stick you in an interview room or even a cell, spare yourself the embarrassment by not wearing shoe laces, belts jewellery etc for them to take off you and take a book

when you get to court , if you go not guilty they should adjourn, pending the actual trial and accepting the warrant issue will probably put you on bail to appear on the date decided upon, expect less sympathy if there a paper trail of varius correspondence to a address you reside at

you should then be able to get the summons and the evidence about the offence and make on informed decision on if to plead guilt;ty or not
Smoot
About the address, the 2 NIP's went to my address in Northern Ireland, but they sent the summons to my address in Sheffield at the time (i found this out earlier) I think they got this address when i phoned up the Central Ticket Office to talk about the 2 cases after i got the NIP's



About the address, the 2 NIP's went to my address in Northern Ireland, but they sent the summons to my address in Sheffield at the time (i found this out earlier) I think they got this address when i phoned up the Central Ticket Office to talk about the 2 cases after i got the NIP's

I then moved down to Norfolk in June, and since then have had my girlfriend check for any mail at my address in Sheffield a few times (maybe the current tenant just got it and binned it thought, before my girlfriend could come round each week)

Since then I haven’t heard one jot about it, no effort was made to contact me via phone.

Does this mean it is my fault, or it isn’t then?

Something I picked up on the phone earlier was the woman saying 'without bail' so if I pleaded not guilty there could be a chance I would have to remain in police custody somewhere?


What realistically is my best bet here though?

Do i plead not guilty? risk being kept there and ask for evidence? im not sure if the camera i was caught on was the 40mph one i thought it was - im not sure WHAT one it was since i cant find it on the map, so i don’t know if that makes me not guilty?

Do i plead guilty? tell them im a newly qualified teacher, no previous convictions, living in the countryside, honest mistake and im sorry for it, and hope for the best? can i plead guilty and talk about the speed camera possibly have being the incorrectly marked one? will they have all this info exactly where it was at etc here?

Id very much rather get this thing over and done with, its causing so much stress for me and my partner that im at my tethers end.

Is trhere any realistic chance that i could escape with my license if im caught doing 44 in a 30, then 62 in a 30 a week later? or am i deluding myself?

Rich

jobo
QUOTE (Smoot @ Fri, 11 Jun 2010 - 18:44) *
Something I picked up on the phone earlier was the woman saying 'without bail' so if I pleaded not guilty there could be a chance I would have to remain in police custody somewhere?


i very much doubt it

as we did earlier, they may have gone ahead in you absence and now want you in court to ban you, when you get there you give credible evidence that you didnt receive the summons ( a STAT dec coupled with your change of address) and they over turn the conviction and then the warrant is satisfied and your not convicted any more, so they have nothing to hold you for

the worse they can do is ban you on the day, they still have nothing to hold you for, then you go and do the stat dec,

or the case has not been heard yet in which case adjourn pending legal advice, the chances of them holding you on remand for a speeding offence are slight in the extreme
Smoot
Ok so I'm going in to surrender myself tomorrow morning.

I'm a little more confident now that i wont be getting arrested and kept in custody for some time, i just have to convince them that I didnt know about my previous Summons

Im not sure what a stat dec is though?

I have however got all my bills like phone/elec/water/council tax registered in Norfolk since June, and held my job down there since too. On top of that I followed up on my call from the police a few days ago, being proactive in this situation - and i've obviously surrendered myself for arrest. Is this proof enough that I am not a summons-dodging criminal.

Do you think this will be enough to definitely set me free tomororw if the court adjourns pending legal advice yeah?



Thanks again for all your advice, especially you Jobo, the people on this website (and this website in general) are really great!

Rich
Tancred
QUOTE (Smoot @ Wed, 9 Jun 2010 - 21:03) *
Im sorry - i forgot that when you press Printscreen on a multi-display computer it captures all of them. ITS THE MIDDLE ONE THATS INTERESTING.

Sorry - my mind is a little frazzled


I'd recommend removing the image and posting a cropped one as it's generally considered a bad idea to publish any personally identifiable details on the forum and your full name is in plainview.
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