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abbeyg
Received a summon for next week relating to a tyre dispute of d tyre being less than 1.6mm which happened couple of months back please advice me on wat to do , Have been told to plead guilty by post , include mitigation letter or plead not guilty and wait for a new hearing date , i already have 3 points and my license is less than 2 yrs please help i need my car for work ...and cant afford my license to be taken off me
peterguk
What are you disputing?

hdskyforce
Was your tyre below 1.6mm?
abbeyg
the original NIP cos at the time i was stopped i had no knowledge of the tyre being less dan d limit , PLEASE HELP ME

The officer did not measure it they just wrote groove not visible on the NIP
Gan
I'm guessing he couldn't issue a fixed penalty because it would take you to six points.

Did he mark the tyre in any way and what did you do afterward - did you, for example, take it to a garage to be measured ?

What exactly did the officer say at the time regarding a possible prosecution ?

abbeyg
The officer did not mark or measure the car , he just wrote it down on d ticket he gave me , on d original NIP it says Groove not visible while on the summons it says Low tread , is dat not conflictin report

i called AA to come change the tyres for me as I had a brand new spare tyres in the booth
Durzel
QUOTE (Gan @ Tue, 18 May 2010 - 18:45) *
I'm guessing he couldn't issue a fixed penalty because it would take you to six points.

Bear in mind that the licence revokation system is a DVLA scheme - it isn't imposed by the courts, so it would not affect whether or not someone is given a FPN or not. The exception to this would be if someone were on 9 points as they could not be given a FPN that would take them to 12, they would have to be summonsed instead.
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (abbeyg @ Tue, 18 May 2010 - 18:37) *
the original NIP cos at the time i was stopped i had no knowledge of the tyre being less dan d limit , PLEASE HELP ME

Not a defence I'm afraid. As the driver of the car it is your responsibility to esure the vehicle is in a roadworthy and legal state. Tyres don't suddenly become bald, so trying to say you didn't know won't be looked on favourably I suspect.
peterguk
QUOTE (abbeyg @ Tue, 18 May 2010 - 18:50) *
The officer did not mark or measure the car , he just wrote it down on d ticket he gave me , on d original NIP it says Groove not visible while on the summons it says Low tread , is dat not conflictin report

i called AA to come change the tyres for me as I had a brand new spare tyres in the booth


I don't see it is conflicting. If the wear indicators or "grooves" between treads are not visible, then the tread must not only be low, but almost non-existent.

If you do not have the tyre, or you did not get an official report from the AA when they came to change then i can't see you have any viable defence.

Not knowing the tread was below the legal limit is no defence.
jobo
come on lad , you know tyres are more complex than just having bald spots

Op do you still posses the tyre which is in dispute

a smart thing to have done is have it independently checked
abbeyg
so should i plead guilty and include a good letter of mitigation plea for a lesser punishment cos my 2years period is around the corner ............
Top Cat
QUOTE (abbeyg @ Tue, 18 May 2010 - 20:19) *
so should i plead guilty and include a good letter of mitigation plea for a lesser punishment cos my 2years period is around the corner ............


Revocation will not be a court decision,it is automatically done by the DVLA (who don't listen to mitigation) the court cannot prevent it if you reach 6 points in less than 2 years.
abbeyg
so wat can i do ..........
hdskyforce
If I was you I'd prepare myself for the almost certain revokation of your licence. If you no longer have the tyre and can't produce anything stating that the tread was indeed legal then you will be convicted and given 3 points. I can't see the magistrates giving you a disqualification instead of points as they are "encouraged" not to do this as it would effectively make the new driver scheme pointless.

If the tread as so bad in that the tread pattern was no longer visible then the officer does not need to measure it as there is nothing to measure. I'm sure he'll have written down the information off the side wall of the tyre, just incase people decide to try and produce a different tyre at court that is legal.
abbeyg
OMG, its not looking too good for me , should i plead guilty in person and explain personal circumstances i.e loss of job
jobo
QUOTE (abbeyg @ Tue, 18 May 2010 - 20:19) *
so should i plead guilty and include a good letter of mitigation plea for a lesser punishment cos my 2years period is around the corner ............


there isnt a lesser punishment than 3 points

if you haven't got the tyre any more and you didnt get it tested before disposal, then its very hard to see you contradicting the officers opinion that it was illegal
spanner345
Not all grooves in a tyre need to be visible for the tyre to be legal. Only the full depth grooves are measurable by mot testers and the police. Some tyres exist with only three of these grooves.

Many policemen do not know what they are talking about, they often issue vehicle defect notices when there is no defect as I have found out. I have no reason to believe your policeman will be any different as regards your summons. The police rules and vosa rules are the same.

Is is possible that under questioning in court the policeman is lacking in knowledge, making any conviction much less likely.

Korting
If you are a member of a motoring organisation (EG AA, RAC) or have legal expenses cover then taking spanner 345's advice, I'd hire a lawyer to defend you in court.
glasgow_bhoy
What kind of tyre was it? When had you last had it replaced?
peterguk
QUOTE (Michael 194 @ Wed, 19 May 2010 - 10:58) *
If you are a member of a motoring organisation (EG AA, RAC) or have legal expenses cover then taking spanner 345's advice, I'd hire a lawyer to defend you in court.


I doubt they would provide FOC legal expenses in this situation.
desktop_demon
OP - do you still have the tyre. Either in the car (as a spare?) or somewhere else? If you do still have access to it then you might be able to get expert assessment of the tyre and so (maybe) mount a defence.

if the OP does not have access to the original tyre then statistically it is likely the OP will be found guilty. With all that entails. Hardship to the OP is NOT a reason not to give points or endorsements on licence. Hardship to other may be. However bold tyres are considered a bad thing by most courts - so be prepared for unwelcome outcome. Going smartly dressed and pleading guilty in person can sometime yield results but it this case it is debatable whether attending will produce a different outcome to pleading guilty by post.

Either way "good luck"!
spanner345
However, if in court, the policeman doesn't know about "full depth grooves". you stand a fair chance. You will be able to illustrate that an invisible groove on a tyre does not have to mean that the tyre is illegal.

Lack of a proper measurement may also be in your favour, as the outer eighth of the tyre tread (inner and outer) can be bald as a coot, still without a problem.
abbeyg
so what should i do , cos i need to make a decision by tomorrow
jobo
either stick or twist

either go guilty or put up a fight, bone up on tyre law and see if you can get the court to see reasonable doubt

its just three points, if you loose, what ever you do

slightly higher fine though

id try it myself, but its your call
spanner345
It's your decision. You must weigh up all the possibilities.

Go to court and win, smiles all round

Go to court and lose, license gone and a fair amount of money.

Plead guilty, license gone and a lesser amount of money.

Maybe a call to a solicitor may be the best bet, They will have a better idea of the odds.





If it was me, I would give it a go but I know the tyre measuring rules inside out, I would gamble that the policeman does not. But I could so easily be wrong.
scbk
QUOTE (abbeyg @ Wed, 19 May 2010 - 18:06) *
so what should i do , cos i need to make a decision by tomorrow


Was the tyre legal??
abbeyg
Thanks to everyone for their advice , i got a positive outcome at court today ..............what a relief ..............
sena.1994
congratulations.

How did you win??

and do you now know how to check your tyres in future biggrin.gif
spanner345
QUOTE (abbeyg @ Wed, 26 May 2010 - 18:27) *
Thanks to everyone for their advice , i got a positive outcome at court today ..............what a relief ..............

Give us all a clue how you did it.
abbeyg
I wrote a very good letter of mitigation to the court and was very sorry and the magistrate had mercy and overlooked the endorsement of points , instead i was asked to pay a fine ....
peterguk
QUOTE (abbeyg @ Sat, 29 May 2010 - 10:08) *
I wrote a very good letter of mitigation to the court and was very sorry and the magistrate had mercy and overlooked the endorsement of points , instead i was asked to pay a fine ....


Well done, but for accuracy, from what you say, you didn't win. You pleaded guilty and avoided points.
southpaw82
The only way you could have "avoided points" is if the court found special reasons not to endorse your licence. What were those special reasons?
xJoannex
I am in the same situation and i wondered what u put in your letter as i'd like 2 think it could help me too
thanks xxx
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