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herbsomersal
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2010
Date of the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Townsend Avenue (Southbound), Liverpool, L11
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The vehicle was parked on a private car park at the rear of my home in Macclesfield, Cheshire on the date and time stated on the NIP. I was in my home at the time of the alleged offence, with an engineer who was fitting me a water meter. At no point did the vehicle leave the car park until later that day.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sun, 16 May 2010 04:13:30 +0000
peterguk
What is the time difference between the alleged time and the time you were on the road "later that day?" Was your car at the alleged location later that day?

What is the alleged offence?
herbsomersal
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 16 May 2010 - 08:12) *
What is the time difference between the alleged time and the time you were on the road "later that day?" Was your car at the alleged location later that day?

What is the alleged offence?

The alleged time of the offence was 11:20am. "Later that day" was around 18:00. No, the van has never been to Liverpool all the time I've owned it.

Alleged offence is that the driver of the van exceeded a 30mph limit by travelling at 39mph (lastec camera), contrary to S81(1)RTRA 84 Sch 2 RTOA 88.
The NIP is an application for the name and address of the driver.

Herb
desktop_demon
The OP should reply to the NIP with the 28 day period - if the driver is not known then that should be the reply given. This requirement is a strict liability, so the OP should fill in the form, sign it, keep a copy and post the completed form back to the ticket office by (say) day 24. If the OP denies the car was involved then expect the police to take a sudden interest. So best to be a bit prepared in advance. if the vehicle has never been to Liverpool at all then this allegation should be easy to defend.

To help clear up the mystery of the unknown driver, the OP should, in the meanwhile, write to the ticket office and simply ask for "any photographs or images that might help identify the driver and confirm the location". The letter can be that simple. I am not sure if Merseyside Police offer on-line photographic viewing. if so that would be an option too.

The idea of requesting the photographs is to confirm the vehicle and location. Sometimes on a Lastec video print the driver can be seen in the photo/s and sometimes not. If the vehicle registration plate was "cloned" then the vehicle may be a different colour/make to the OP's vehicle. That would help the OP defend the allegation.

IT would be a good idea for the OP to contact the person who fitted the water meter to see if they will provide an alibi. Also is the car park in Macclesfield covered by any CCTV? If so that would also provide evidence the OP's vehicle was in the car park in Macclesfield around the time alleged.

With a bit of "legwork" the mystery should be possible to solve.
herbsomersal
QUOTE (desktop_demon @ Sun, 16 May 2010 - 10:17) *
The OP should reply to the NIP with the 28 day period - if the driver is not known then that should be the reply given. This requirement is a strict liability, so the OP should fill in the form, sign it, keep a copy and post the completed form back to the ticket office by (say) day 24.

desktop_demon, many thanks for the reply.
Regarding filling in the form, I don't seem to have the option on it to say driver unknown.

There are 5 choices:
1. I was not the driver at the time of the alleged offence and I believe it to be...
2. I was not the owner/keeper... because I sold/disposed...
3. I was not the owner/keeper...because I bought/aquired it from...
4. Vehicle hire firm statement...
5. I have never been the owner/keeper of the vehicle.

Do I send the form back blank together with a covering letter and request for copy images of the vehicle involved?

At a complete loss as to the way forward.
bama
The S.172 fallacy strikes again !

What are the risks involved in this case in responding with ?

"There was no driver at this time and the vehicle was parked at xxxxx between the hours of nnnn and nnnn on nn/xxx/nnnn" and using "Not applicable" for the name, address licence number etc.

The form is asking for the impossible in these circumstances so surely a statement of facts must be added.
What else can a reasonable person do to protect themselves ?

I know the SCP won't 'like it' but they also know that wrong NIPS do get issued.
andy_foster
6. Write "See attached" on the s. 172 response form and staple a letter providing the relevant information.

From what you have told us, the possibilities are -

some scally has cloned your VRM,
a shaved chimp at the CTO has misread/mistyped the VRM from the still, or
someone stole your vehicle, got caught speeding, and then returned it without you noticing

Realistically, it is likely to be one of the first two. I'd suggest phoning the scammers as soon as they open on Monday morning, explaining that your van was not there, and asking them to check the photo and confirm the VRM, describe the vehicle etc. If they are adamant that the VRM is correct, I'd suggest reporting that your VRM has been cloned to the real police a.s.a.p.
herbsomersal
Thanks bama and Andy.

Think ringing them is the sensible option, and follow it up in writing, (unless someone can think of a better way of dealing with it).

Cheers guys.

Herb
ford poplar
You need to reply & return the form within 28 days

I would suggest tick 1. not the driver see attached covering letter

and do everything suggested above
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