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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
mofoevo
Hi guys,

I've come unstuck with getting a Nip through the post.

When I first bought my car nearly a year ago I put it in my name using the motor trade slip. (I'm a trader) Hence it has not added any owners to it and the DVLA records show it as being Transfered to trade.
This then should leave the previous owner with no come back in terms of fines etc.
Taken from a vehicle registration document to show how it looks:

(Name and address of motor trader)
Title or business: entered my first name
Surname:entered my surname
Address:Entered

Both signed to state transfered.


My problem started when I received a NIP for an offence dated 16/02/05
I didn't receve it until 09/03/05 which is out of the 14 day limit.

I wrote back with the standard notice served out of time letter to which I have just received this:

A notice of intended prosecution is sent out within 14 days to the last known recorded keeper of a vehicle. The information is abtained by electronic link with the DVLA.

The notice allows 28 days for the recipient to respond, and all subsequent Notices carry the same time allowances for a reply. It is only the first noticfication that must be posted out within 14 days of the offence. All copies of such Notices are signed and dated on dispatch.

If you have received a Notice outside of the initial 14 days from the offence one of the following circumstance will most certainly have applied:

A)Registered with holding insurance company (Hire vehicles) Nope!

B)Registered to a lease holding company. Nope!

C)Vehicle is registered directly to a business (Driver then nominated by company) Possibly but it still came to me out of time and I've nominated nobody.

All others apply in no way whatsoever.

Lastly it states:
I would like to advise you a Notice of intended prosecution was sent to the Registered Keeper at the time on 18/02/05. A seven day hold has been placed on the proseution file to allow your response

I do not know what to make of the last bit. Sent to registered keeper?
I never received anything and if they sent it to the previous owner then surely they are in the wrong.

Any advice very much appreciated as i'm running out of time.

Regards
James
andy_foster
For speeding, a person cannot be convicted unless, either an NIP was served on the driver or RK within 14 days of the date of the alleged offence, or with reasonable diligence it was not possible for the police to ascertain the details of the driver or the RK in time to serve an NIP within the 14 days.

If the DVLA had the previous owner listed at the time the police enquired, either he would be classed as the RK, or it would not have been possible with reasonable diligence to ascertain who the RK was in time.

Either way, late service doesn't help you.

If however, the police were relying on records received from the DVLA some time ago, rather than a fresh request for imformation.

I don't know how the DVLA deals with changes of ownership to dealers, but it would probably be a good idea to contact them and confirm whether or not they had you listed as RK on the date of the alleged offence.
mofoevo
I spoke to the DVLA on the day of the offence and they confirmed it was registered as transfered to trade and no longer anything to do with the previous RK.

Just to also add, Old records would still show the car as Transfered to trade as it has been like this for nearly a year.
andy_foster
Did you confirm that they had your correct details?
mofoevo
Yes, correct details were confirmed.
mofoevo
Anybody else wish to air there thoughts on this matter?

I really do think the police have made a shambles with this one.
jeffreyarcher
I'm not convinced that the late service will help.
Is a 'transfer to trade' is an RK?
If not, they have to NIP the RK (the previous owner).
bigstoop
This is just a thought, but transfering the vehicle to a motor trader???  Isn't that an offence?  If your garage isn't actually selling the car then it should be registered to the company.

Don't trade vehicles have to display trade plates?

I'm fairly certain that you could be opening a can of worms here, and infact you are the one who has made a mess of things.

I hope you get away with it though  :D
Pug205GRD
Whats to say that it has been on the forecourt with a for sale sign in it and it just hasent been brought yet? Maybe the trader was taking the car to a possible buyer at the time of the offence...

Just a thought.
mofoevo
Nothing illegal about what i did.
I'd bought the car to sell on hence registering it as trade. I had problems with the car which meant it was away for 6 months while it was repaired.

As long as a car is taxed trade plates do not have to be displayed.

Anyway, stuff them now, the NIP has taken a holiday.......
Monster
The information provided to Police from the PNC would only be the previous keeper and the fact that the vehicle was ‘in trade’.  None of the trader’s details would be made available immediately.

In this scenario there would be no necessity to send a NIP out within 14 days as the information on the current ownership of the vehicle (i.e. the trader) would not be available to Police.

I believe a customary NIP would be sent to the previous keeper as they would probable furnish the trader’s details quicker than a request to DVLA.

Either way they are covered on the legislation.

As a trader, you are well aware that if you allow any person to test drive a vehicle it is your responsibility to ensure the driver details are taken and if you travel with them to ensure they comply with RTA.  Also if they are taking the vehicle for a test drive alone then you must confirm their details and check their driving licence, otherwise you are committing the offence of permitting.

I trust this helps you on this matter.
andy_foster
QUOTE (Monster)
The information provided to Police from the PNC would only be the previous keeper and the fact that the vehicle was ‘in trade’.  None of the trader’s details would be made available immediately.

In this scenario there would be no necessity to send a NIP out within 14 days as the information on the current ownership of the vehicle (i.e. the trader) would not be available to Police.

Monster,

Would the police be able to ascertain the (current) keeper's details (in time to serve an NIP within the 14 days) by reasonable diligence, by requesting them from the DVLA?

There is (IMHO) a huge gulf between details not being available immediately, and being unable to ascertain them by reasonable diligence within the required timescale.
Monster
Current timescales for information from DVLA is 4-6 weeks.  So in answer to your question, no the information cannot be obtained within the 14 days.

The only way information can be obtained from them immediately is when a Court case is pending (i.e. already in progress).
andy_foster
Monster,

Thankyou for that (shocking) insight.
Don't suppose you know what/who's rules/policy state that you can't get the info immediately if required for an NIP (forgive me if I sound cynical, but it does seem awfully convenient), but can get it for a case in progress?
Also, any chance you could elaborate on the reasons and/or mechanisms involved?
Monster
Police have to request the information from DVLA on a form.  This is then sent to them by post.

Eventually this comes back.  It has been some time since I worked in the department but I’ve been informed it’s still the same process.

Fast tracking is via the Police DVLA liaison Officer.  If a Case is in Court he/she can phone DVLA and they can fax the info back immediately.

We also use this route in serious crime matters and serious RTCs etc.

The reason for this process is the work involved would swamp DVLA if we requested it all by fast tracking. Plus there is only one DVLA Liaison Officer in the Met.

Not the best system in the world.  If DVLA could keep their records updated we could have the information to hand straight away.  It’s VERY frustrating for us, especially when a vehicle fails to stop that shows currently in trade or has recently been sold.

DVLA liaison is only available during the day so if the FTS was at night the whole process of tracking the offender is delayed until morning (although there are other ways available e.g. sending an Officer to previous keeper etc but this all takes time).
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