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AnthonyM
Hi There Everyone

I have recently gained another 3 points on my licence for speeding 41 in a 30 on a dual carriageway but i already have previous speeding convictions all SP30s listed below (I’m a bad boy I know)

SP30 22/9/07 70 in a 50 (motorway)
SP30 01/11/08 42 on a country lane which was 30
SP30 15/04/09 39 on a dual carriage way which was a 30

So my question is what am i looking at getting as i will undoubtedly have to appear in court, i was advised by my insurers that i will be looking at a ban and a TC99 which will replace the points on my licence, what’s funny is with a TC99 one of my insurance polices will reduce by nearly £650 per year????

How and what should i plead; i can take some time off work if i need to due to a ban but this would be 1/2 weeks at the most...as i do need to drive in my line of work, i can’t get a letter from my employer as I am the company Director, i am responsible for 16 staff so I’m hopping that that goes in my favour. I have been told that 1 week / 2 week bans are sometimes dished out with a salary related fine is this true advice?

Some other things i have been told are

Taking legal representation can annoy the judge
It’s down to the judge’s mood on the day
I could be banned for 6 months
They could take my son away and send me Australia (OK I HAVENT BEEN TOLD THAT)

But you get my drift, I need to be prepared and do what i can

I wouldn’t mind a short ban and a TC99 as this seems to reduce my insurance considerably, as we have 4 vehicles in the house this would add up to a huge saving at the moment

I know i shouldn’t have been speeding as it is my livelihood i do cover 35 to 40k miles per year and defiantly need the car.

Thanks in Advance


Anthony
Professor Lone Ranger
Judges are employed to be beyond personal preferences but of course they are human. Have you considered employing a driver? You might find it would be good for both of you.
peterguk
If the NIP is addressed to your Ltd. company, and it did not respond to the S.172 request, the Ltd company would receive a hefty fine but no points.
bossjohnc
It's best for you to complete the NIP Wizard. A lot depends on how you got these points (or NIP) and what stage you're at.

I believe the minimum ban for a TT99 is 6 months, however you'd come out with no points. In your situation you may be able to convince the judge to allow you to continue driving with 12 points but you'd need to present your case well, and tread very carefully in future.
AnthonyM
Hi Lone Ranger

Thanks for the reply, I have had a price to employ a driver if the ban exceeds 2 weeks and it’s not cheap so i really wouldn’t want a full time one, it would be a last resort as I’m often out very early/home late and occasionally away so the standard 9-5 drivers wouldn’t suit. It’s a short term fix if I absolutely have to.

Anthony




QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 14 Apr 2010 - 10:29) *
If the NIP is addressed to your Ltd. company, and it did not respond to the S.172 request, the Ltd company would receive a hefty fine but no points.


hi there yes it was originally addressed the my limited company i returned the NIP with my address and then had an NIP to my Home , this was then returned and subsequently i now have a COFP, which i will return with my licence, hence the court summons will be soon to follow.

As far as i was told if the limited company does not reply the director is ultimately responsible for ensuring that he/she knows who’s driving the vehicles at all times or has procedures in place to do so. so just back balling it would have been a no no for me.

Regards


Anthony
RDA
You have named yourself as the driver and have sufficient points on your licence to qualify you for a totting-up disqualification, so a summons will follow.

Penalties of this nature are meant to hurt the offender and lead to a reduction in crime. They are, however, not intended to adversely affect others and for this reason I would advise you to engage a solicitor to prepare a mitigation case on your behalf which illustrates the effect that a disqualification would have on others.

In your case, a totting-up disqualification could result in an adverse effect on your business and potentially lead to others losing their jobs and may lead the magistrates to impose a more lenient penalty.
AnthonyM
Hi Guys

Have a court case in the Morning, would like some general advise on what to do and how these court cases go, i have no idea what to expect.

My situation is as follows


i had been on 9 points for two and half years i finally got my last 3 in Dec and now have to attend court, the plot thickens as they are saying i never responded to the conditional offer of fixed penalty, although i have their stamp on the paperwork they returned to me with my licence as i wasn't eligible for the COFP. The central ticket department said that finance (ie the department that handles the condition offers) hadn't notified them that i wasn't eligible for the Fixed penalty and therefore they have me down as not responding hence the summons. I called them on the phone and discussed it they said its fine as i have the stamp + proof of postage etc for all correspondence but they cannot stop the summons i will simply have to attend court.

with that said i have been advised that even though the summons is for failing to respond to the fixed penalty they will deal with the fact i have 9 points on the day anyway. my question is shouldn't this be deferred as its not the case i am being brought to court for? isn't it like saying your here on murder charges but we were wrong so we will have a hearing about failing to pay your tv licence instead?

If they do throw out the charges of failing to respond to the fixed penalty then this would take me over the 6 month mark on the original ticket? is this correct?

thanks in advance


Anthony
andy_foster
There is no offence of failing to respond to a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty. Unlike a Fixed Penalty Notice, you are entirely free to ignore a COFP. It is merely an opportunity to dispose of liability for an alleged offence by paying the penalty and having the points endorsed on your licence, but the offer is conditional upon being able to accept the points without totting up.

If you do not accept a COFP, or if you do not meet the condition, then it is open to the police to instigate proceedings after the 28 day 'suspended enforcement period' expires.

Logician
The question is what it says on the summons, as andy says, there is no offence of failing to respond to a fixed penalty. There is an offence of failing to identify the driver, the s172 offence. If you have simply been charged with that, you have the evidence to prove that you did respond. If you have not been charged with the speeding offence, then it cannot be dealt with tomorrow. The CPS often dual charge both s172 and speeding, and if they have done that, then the speeding can be dealt with.

The minimum number of points for speeding is 3, so you will become a totter and liable for a minimum 6 months disqualification unless you can convince the court that you would suffer exceptional hardship, and hardship to others counts for far more than hardship to yourself. If you were banned would your 16 employees suffer because you could not bring in work etc? Do you take anyone else about, aged parent, disabled child and so on? Do you do charitable work using your car? Expect to be examined about alternatives available, eg could one of your staff or a relative drive you about. You were advised to get a solicitor to present these arguments, do we take it you have not done so?
AnthonyM
no didn't opt for the solicitor route as i was advised by my company solicitor that it really makes no difference as the courts will talk to you and let you put your case across and simply handling the situation with representation could still result in a ban as i am eligible for one anyway

thanks for the advise on the above fingers crossed !
peterguk
Just to clarify - what's the charge on the summons?
AnthonyM
The court Agreed to hear my plea of Exceptional hardship and have rescheduled the date for the 2nd august, I have now instructed a solicitor to get involved and will be seeing them tomorrow.
My proof of postage and their stamp on the COFP that was returned to be was accepted and no more was mentioned about this in court. The magistrates seemed pretty reasonable just the guy who knows the law that sits in front of them seemed al little abrupt and leading with his address. After it had finished one of the female magistrates told me to make sure I had good representation on my return to court as simply pleading hardship myself wouldn’t be a good idea.

On another note, out of all the people waiting to go through I was the only one in shirt and tie ...how bizarre some people turn up in jeans and trainers.. One gentleman there (i use the term gentleman loosely) had been banned a total of 5 times.... another claimed he had scrapped the car a week earlier... I didn’t believe him it must a be a loop hole or something... who drives a car a week before scrapping it... it would have to be in a pretty bad way !
redloner
Anthony,

Please answer the question.

What offence(s) is/are on the summons?
The Rookie
QUOTE (AnthonyM @ Tue, 13 Jul 2010 - 14:39) *
My proof of postage and their stamp on the COFP that was returned to be was accepted

In relationship to what, sounds a total irrelevance to me!

Simon
jobo
QUOTE (AnthonyM @ Tue, 13 Jul 2010 - 14:39) *
T I didn’t believe him it must a be a loop hole or something... who drives a car a week before scrapping it... it would have to be in a pretty bad way !


???????????????????????????????

Me lots of times, some times I drive them to the scrap yard
AnthonyM
Hey Just a quick one to let you know how i got on

I was granted exceptional hardship, and i am now on 12 points, so I can’t so much as sneeze and ill be banned, I got a fine totalling £380 (speeding fine £280, court fees of £85 and a £15 fee for something else can’t remember what) solicitor cost me £250 for an appearance on the day and some advise in advance, Total £630.

I ended making up a portfolio of the areas i worked in, i had with me a service agreement we had drawn up with the business, there was also a section in that on my need for a licence, also took with me loan statements, all out goings, a letter from myself to the court and a character letter, along with this i had evidence of all the millage i cover together with timesheets and millage logs, fuel bills for the vehicle backing up my claim of 40,000 miles per year. i had all of the above in a file with letter of other commitments such as swimming lessons nursery fees and how many time i collect my son per week etc.

I didn’t bring with me any share agreements for the company, bank statements or company accounts which would indicate a possible "hire a driver" situation, I did fill in a means form which was all my basic salary etc..

Happy for now i just hope i don’t slip again!


Regards


Anth
The Rookie
£15 is the victim support surcharge that is levied on all people found/pleading guuilty in a court.

£85 is COSTS not court fee's they go to the prosecution.

Fine is £280 therefore as the rest are costs, that is fairly leniant under the circumstance, but as you say you are now driving like miss daisy for a year until back down to 6pts.

Simon
SCTomkinson
QUOTE (AnthonyM @ Thu, 12 Aug 2010 - 13:51) *
Happy for now i just hope i don’t slip again!


Welcome to the "whos the silly **** holding everyone up at the front" club! happy.gif

Cos thats me too! Think instead of enjoying driving, ill have a competition on how many I can get in the queue behind me while driving at the speed limit!

Steve
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