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Tylo
I was caught on Friday morning between Stonehaven and Forfar by a gun at 104mph, I was pulled over and was told because it was such a huge amount over the speed limit and verging on dangerous driving (is 110?) it would go to the PF. (The boyfriend is not very amused!).

He said it would be 4 to 6 weeks before I got my letter. I would be really grateful if anyone had an idea of how long it takes between the letter and attending court?

I intend to plead guilty but put in my letter that losing my license loses me my job (whether that still helps now or not), do I still have to attend court or does it go to court after that, etc?

I was advised by someone that I would be getting a 3 or 6 months ban, and someone else said 28 day ban and a fine up to £1000, or if the court was really really nice 6 points and a fine????

any similar stories that you could share you outcome.

I was due to accept a new job this week, but have asked if i could have more time to think about it, hopefully i could get the ban out of the way before starting there if its not too long.

I have had points for speeding before and also points through PF before but was over 5 years ago, do they still look back on your history?


Any help would be grateful

thanks


jobo
any trhying up to 6 months to get to court, though more like 3 months at a guess

you will have to attend

its up to 56 days ban , 28 days and a big fine sounds about right or indeed just 6 points if your very lucky and beg a lot
ict_guy
What were the conditions like, traffic density etc? Was it just speeding or were you swerving in and out of traffic etc etc? What was it that the policeman thought was 'dangerous' - just the speed?

Did the policeman say what you were going to be summons for?
Tylo
Road conditions were fine, not too busy, I was just tanking down the fast lane, I think he was getting at the point that if your caught at 110mph its classed as dangerous driving not speeding, but from his conversation I think he said I would be getting done for speeding but through the Prosecutor Fiscal.

Can someone just confirm the sequence of events for me:

Caught speeding
Letter from Prosecutor Fiscal (sent back saying guilty but please take in to account I will lose my job)
Court summons
Attend Court for my verdict

???
jobo
court speeding
summons
attend court
banned
Tylo


QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 5 Apr 2010 - 23:22) *
court speeding
summons
attend court
banned



So is the summons, where i plead guilty and give my words of wisdom, and this already has my court date on it?
jobo
yes but youl have to go to court and do it
Tylo
Thanks Jobo

Anyone else have ANY information that might set me straight or put my mind at rest?

Im completely confused now as to whether I should accept a new job that I will need a license for????

STUPID ME! Learned my lesson! or at least ive started using the speed limiter on my car!
peterguk
I would add that any claim of exceptional hardship should centre around others, not yourself. It is expected that you will suffer - that's the idea of punishment.
ford poplar
Jobo's sequence is correct, the only letter from PF etc will be a summons as you were NIP'd at the scene. The Polis have 6 months (Scotland?) to lay info to the PF, a summons may then take 2+ months to arrive with a later Court date. As stated mitigation should focus on the adverse effects of a ban on other affected vulnerable dependents. A letter from your employer stating that your continued employment is dependent on a current valid driving licence with less than x points can do no harm IMO
Meanwhile you need to drive like an angel (not Lucifer)
henrik777
You don't get much evidence if you plead guilty. The citation itself may give an indication that things aren't correct though. Check the detail. Were the readings correct, if you know the gun they used is that correct.

If common sense tells you guilty it doesn't mean the law will. Top motoring lawyers make a fortune because they can spot flaws in procedure. It is very difficult to spot flaws by going guilty and getting little evidence. Sure it is risking tougher punishment but you are expecting a ban so would you gamble a few extra days for a chance to get away with it ?

6 months ago i wouldn't but after going through a case (unfinished) i would now.

Stonehaven to Forfar is a fair distance and covers 2 forces and a few hiding places.

Cheers
Tylo
QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 6 Apr 2010 - 00:27) *
I would add that any claim of exceptional hardship should centre around others, not yourself. It is expected that you will suffer - that's the idea of punishment.


I totally accept that I should be suffering but to be honest the worry and anx of the whole thing is driving me mad already and its only been 4 days, im going to be a nervous wreck by the time the court comes round!

What is the best angle to go from then? I dont have any dependents, my partner works offshore and I dont live near my family but they live in the middle of nowhere (ie no public transport).....
Tylo
Right, so I take the telling I got in the car with the police was my 'NIP'?

Is there ways of delaying things as this site suggests or is that only applicable to NIPs sent out??

I intend on pleading guilty, as one, I am and two, I cant afford an solicitor at all!

At court do I get a free solicitor who will give my plea for me, im not good at public speaking and would like to convey the fact that I will lose my job and am eternally sorry, I was driving a car I dont normally and genuinely didnt realise I was driving that fast, out of character, etc.

????? icon_redface.gif
jobo
as i said above your odds on for a short ban , id gues on less than a month, maybe a couple of weeks, maybe not at all


its different to a tot ban were its 6 months come hell or high water, as the mags have a great deal of discresion on if they ban and for how long. so explaining the personal consequences of a ban or long ban, coupled with being very sorry can influence them to a large extent


no you dont get a free solicitor , what you can do is write down what you want to say and read it out, being tongue tied, quivering lip[ on the verge of tears etc is all good for getting their sympathy


QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 5 Apr 2010 - 23:03) *
any trhying up to 6 months to get to court, though more like 3 months at a guess

you will have to attend

its up to 56 days ban , 28 days and a big fine sounds about right or indeed just 6 points if your very lucky and beg a lot
Tylo
Please see my other post - Caught 104mph in a 70...whats next?

There you will see the background to my 'being caught'.

As I cant afford a solicitor I will probably have to speak up for myself, I wish to tell the court that losing my license loses me my job, I volunteer with a conservationist throughout Scotland where I have to visit Buildings at Risk (historic buildings that are in danger of being lost), my speeding was out of character???

I need to have some kind of speech that will convince the court to give me points rather than take my license but without any dependents or anyone who relies on me, so I think because it only really effects me...tough luck!

I think I should be able to get a letter from the person I volunteer for saying he requires me to be able to drive and I think, once I break it to my boss, she will write me a letter saying I need to be driving too.

But will these letters help and at what point to these go to the court....with my summons?

Im not entirely sure how I should communicate this across without looking like im full of self pity.

The worry of all this is getting to me more than anything!

Any help is appreciated.
Tylo
QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 6 Apr 2010 - 16:33) *
being tongue tied, quivering lip[ on the verge of tears etc is all good for getting their sympathy


Thanks, im pretty sure this is going to come naturally! lol

jobo
you need to take your speech and any supporting letters to court with you, take multiple copies of any letters


write out what you want to say and people will comment, i think there is a mitigation thread somewhere but im buggered if i know where, some one will post a link
nemo
QUOTE (Tylo @ Tue, 6 Apr 2010 - 16:48) *
Please see my other post - Caught 104mph in a 70...whats next?

One case, one thread please.

Note that the new topic has now been merged with your original topic, to keep everything in the same place.


QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 6 Apr 2010 - 16:55) *
write out what you want to say and people will comment, i think there is a mitigation thread somewhere but im buggered if i know where, some one will post a link

Try here.
Tylo

QUOTE (nemo @ Tue, 6 Apr 2010 - 16:58) *
QUOTE (Tylo @ Tue, 6 Apr 2010 - 16:48) *
Please see my other post - Caught 104mph in a 70...whats next?

One case, one thread please.

Note that the new topic has now been merged with your original topic, to keep everything in the same place.


QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 6 Apr 2010 - 16:55) *
write out what you want to say and people will comment, i think there is a mitigation thread somewhere but im buggered if i know where, some one will post a link

Try here.



V.Useful Thanks

Just wish things were a little easier to find on the site.
Tylo
Hey peeps

I finally got my court summons through...1st June!

In the summons it states that traffic/road conditions were clear and dry.....I assume this is a good thing,but how much difference will make?

I have written a draft speach to say to the magistrate on the day, but would like to get some feedback from you guys? I have no one that relies on me so I think im going to have quite a job on my hands fighting for leniency.

"First of all I would like to say that I am ashamed to be in front of you. I am pleading guilty as I do not want to waste more of the courts time. I was admittedly rushing to a site visit. The road was quiet and the weather was dry, I was driving a new car for the first time on a main road and momentarily lapsed in my judgement of my speed. I do genuinely believe that speeding is a very serious and dangerous offence and realise no excuse or explanation justifies why I should be travelling at that speed.

I cannot express enough how the enormity of a driving ban will effect not only myself but the work I try to achieve. As expressed in a letter from Mr XXX I aid voluntarily to save historic buildings that are at risk. I have to be able to travel at short notice to often rural and secluded properties all over Scotland to ensure temporary stabilisation of historic buildings.

Also my employer states their reliance on my driving abilities, as a small rural based company I must travel to various sites each day and I fear without a license I would lose my job. A ban may also impede future employment as I will often be asked to drive company vehicles.

I understand the law say I must be punished but I must ask for leniency so that I can continue volunteering and also not disappoint and my employer and leave them without staff.

If the courts could see its way of enabling me to continue driving I will ensure that I will not exceed speed limits as this experience has made me realise how much my actions not only effect other road users but also other around me.

I am very sorry for this and the distress worry over the last few weeks of my circumstances has ensured I will not allow myself to be in this situation again.

Once again I am sorry
."


Please let me know if you can think of anything that might be more successful?

QUOTE (Tylo @ Mon, 5 Apr 2010 - 22:28) *
I was caught on Friday morning between Stonehaven and Forfar by a gun at 104mph, I was pulled over and was told because it was such a huge amount over the speed limit and verging on dangerous driving (is 110?) it would go to the PF. (The boyfriend is not very amused!).

He said it would be 4 to 6 weeks before I got my letter. I would be really grateful if anyone had an idea of how long it takes between the letter and attending court?



As information to others, since the above.

I was caught 2nd April, recieved my summons on the 7th May, Court date is the 1st of June. After that I will let you know the verdict.


jobo
with out going back through the whole post, have you any grandmothers you take shopping etc who may be inconvenienced by a ban

other than that , id split the job and voluntary bits and do a bit more on each , explaining why you need to drive and the affects on each if you can
captain swoop
Remember it's hardship to others, not to you.
bama
" I was admittedly rushing to a site visit."

I wouldn't use those words - they could amount to (in the Mag's minds) to 'yes I knew I was going way over the limit'.

plus rushing denotes absence of care, being in a flap...

just my 2p
ford poplar
Don't promise what you can't guarantee ie won't break the speed limit, or did you just mean not at 104mph! Pleading guilty, not so much saving Court's time rather the penalty discount?

I did it, no excuses, I am ashamed, I have learnt a salutory lesson. Loss of licence will adversely affect my family..., employer and my upaid voluntary work for .....
AFCNEAL
I'm no expert, but driving a new car for the 1st time and doing 104 is probably something not to admit??
Tylo
thanks for you comments, more advice is appreciated
Logician
What help are you looking for? You have done a draft and people have commented on it.
jobo
QUOTE (Logician @ Wed, 19 May 2010 - 14:11) *
What help are you looking for? You have done a draft and people have commented on it.


indeed

redraft and post again
Tylo
QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 16 May 2010 - 02:58) *
with out going back through the whole post, have you any grandmothers you take shopping etc who may be inconvenienced by a ban

other than that , id split the job and voluntary bits and do a bit more on each , explaining why you need to drive and the affects on each if you can


I live away from family and friends I have no-one that depends on me hence im trying to head down the route of not letting my boss down, I will try to re-write with your comments in mind thanks

QUOTE (captain swoop @ Sun, 16 May 2010 - 10:26) *
Remember it's hardship to others, not to you.


I realise that but, I have no dependant so im trying to show that the company I work for and the cause i volunteer for would suffer.

thanks

QUOTE (Logician @ Wed, 19 May 2010 - 14:11) *
What help are you looking for? You have done a draft and people have commented on it.


I wrote that thinking no-one had replied not realising there was a second page


QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Sun, 16 May 2010 - 18:50) *
I'm no expert, but driving a new car for the 1st time and doing 104 is probably something not to admit??


why? Im used to driving an old car, this car is a brand new automatic merc...the police even said to me in the car..."driving a car like that, its so smooth you dont realise how much quicker it is". and it doesnt say it was the first time i had driven the car, it was the first time i had driven the car on the main road (ie a 70).

Can you expand on why you wouldnt admit that?

thanks
jobo
id go for the so much smoother than your old nail thing

but remember your not trying to mitigate the offence so much as describe the the effect of the ban, you can come up with any number of excuses for speeding the ban is still coming unless to get them to accept that undue hardship will be caused

wont it make it difficult to visit your ageing mother ?

have yopu bonded with you siblings children and you want to maintain this bond

have a think
Tylo
QUOTE (jobo @ Wed, 19 May 2010 - 15:25) *
id go for the so much smoother than your old nail thing

but remember your not trying to mitigate the offence so much as describe the the effect of the ban, you can come up with any number of excuses for speeding the ban is still coming unless to get them to accept that undue hardship will be caused

wont it make it difficult to visit your ageing mother ?


thanks Jobo, can always rely on you for helpful advice, Iwill make some changed tonight and re-post
Tylo
Hi guys, im running outof time to get his sent away, so some last comments would be great, here goes:

First of all I would like to say that I am ashamed to be in front of you. I am pleading guilty as I do not want to waste more of the courts time. At the time of my offence I was driving a new car for the first time outside of town, the road was quiet and the weather was dry and
I didn’t realise the speed I was doing. The car was very smooth and quiet in comparison to what I am used to driving and I momentarily lapsed in my judgement of my speed. I do genuinely believe that speeding is a very serious and dangerous offence and realise no excuse or explanation justifies why I should be travelling at that speed.

I cannot express enough how the enormity of a driving ban will effect not only myself but the work I try to achieve.

I have enclosed a letter from Mr xxx who is a conservationist I have been working with for over a year now on a voluntary basis, where on short notice I attend historic buildings, structures or sites that are in immediate risk of loss and assess for temporary stabilisation works. This work can be anywhere in Scotland and majority are rural or secluded properties and sites. Without my license I would not be able to volunteer for this cause which is strained already due to the lack of fully qualified professionals willing to volunteer.

Also my employer states their reliance on my driving abilities, as a small family run construction company in xxx, which during this time economically rely on all its staff contributing their full capabilities to continue working in a competitive industry. Everyday I must be able to travel to various sites throughout Grampian and sometimes further South. The team I work with are very small and work under extreme pressure, and without the ability to drive this would have detrimental effects on current and future projects. I fear that without my license this will cause pressure on the department and hindrance to my employer. A ban may also impede future employment as I will often be asked to drive company vehicles.

I understand the law say I must be punished but I must ask for leniency so that I can continue volunteering and also not disappoint my employer and leave them with insufficient staff. This experience has made me realise how much my actions not only effect other road users but also others around me.

I am very sorry for this and the distress and worry over the last few weeks of my circumstances has ensured I will not allow myself to be in this situation again and hope that the court could see its way of enabling me to continue driving.

Once again I am sorry.
mpaso
i think it highly unlikely that the court will accept a postal plea. If i were you id opt for the 'guilty at court box'.
Logician
I would not say you are pleading guilty in order not to waste the court's time, that implies you could dispute you were speeding if you wished. Better to say "I admit that I was speeding that day, and I am pleading guilty at the first opportunity"
"Licence" is the noun, "license" is the verb, as with advice and advise. There are one or two other things that could sound better, my suggestion is below:

First of all I would like to say that I am ashamed to be in front of you. I admit that I was speeding that day, and I am pleading guilty at the first opportunity. At the time of my offence I was driving a new car for the first time outside of town, the car was very smooth and quiet in comparison to what I am used to driving, there was little other traffic about, the weather was dry and I was momentarily deceived in my judgement of my speed. I was shocked when the officer told me the speed I was doing. I do genuinely believe that speeding is a very serious and dangerous offence and realise no excuse or explanation justifies why I should be travelling at that speed.

I cannot express enough how the enormity of how a driving ban will affect not only myself, but the work I try to achieve.

I have enclosed a letter from Mr xxx who is a conservationist I have been working with for over a year now on a voluntary basis, which involves attending, at short notice, historic buildings, structures or sites that are in immediate risk of loss and assessing them for temporary stabilisation works. This work can be anywhere in Scotland and the majority are rural or secluded properties and sites. Without my licence I would not be able to volunteer for this cause which is struggling already due to the lack of fully qualified professionals willing to volunteer.

Also, my employer states their reliance on my driving abilities, it is a small family-run construction company in xxx, which during this time of economic difficulty relies on all its staff contributing their full capabilities to continue working in a very competitive industry. Every day I must be able to travel to various sites throughout Grampian and sometimes further South. The team I work with is very small and works under extreme pressure, losing my ability to drive would cause great difficulty to my colleagues and hindrance to my employer, with detrimental effects on current and future projects. A ban would also impede future employment as I will often be asked to drive company vehicles.

I understand the law says I must be punished but I must ask for leniency, and punishment in the form of points on my licence rather than disqualification, so that I can continue volunteering and also not let down my employers and leave them with insufficient staff.

This experience has made me realise how much my actions not only affect other road users but also others around me, and the distress and worry over the last few weeks of my circumstances has ensured I will not allow myself to be in this situation again and hope that the court will see its way to enable me to continue driving.

Once again may I say how sorry I am for this lapse in what I assure you are my normally high standards of driving.


One question that occurs is how you are able to travel for the conservation work at short notice without impacting your paid job - I presume you do this all in your own time, evenings and weekends?
bama
"the work I try to achieve"

could do with re-writing IMO, poor english and coveys nothing.

How about "the work I do"

I don't if they will be worried about "hindrance to my employer"

hindrance means your employer can work around it.
jobo
i think the lodg version is fine

you wont get away with not going if they are thinking of banning you
Tylo
COURT TOMORROW!

any last bits of advise? can there be not alot of difference between my letter and my 'speech' at court? ie, do i just read out the reply i did to my summons?
Logician
It can be just the same, or if you wish you can just ask the mags to read your letter and ask you if they have any questions. In that case take along four copies (one for the clerk in case it is not readily available on the file).

Good luck!
Tylo
Okguys, i didnt do too bad but im really bitter about the whole thing so im not as happy as i probably should be.

So on the day I turned up an hour early, suited up and spoke to everyone respectfully, to the point they all assumed I was there as a witness or juror for another case.

I was allowed to site in the court room untilit started, it wasnt what i would call a court room more like a meeting room. At the backof the room was the raised up desk for the magistrate, in the middle of the room was a round meeting table where the solicitor, legal advisor and the one a called the 'bitch' sat, at the other end of the room another small desk where the defendant sat, surrounding that were folding chairs crammed into the room.

There were 25 defendants to attend of only 7 turned up. The people who had solicitors all got to go first which took about 5-10 mins each then left when they got their verdict. I was told then it would either go by first come first served or alphabetically, but it didnt,the just made their way around the room clockwise! So there were only 2after me to go.

I was called to stand at the desk, confirm my name and address, sat while they read all the details of my case, where they mentioned I had already submitted papers/letters,etc, i was aksed if i had any more and if i wanted the magistrate to read my letter, I said yes, he flew through 3 letters quickly. The bitch then said to the magistrate I had no previous convictions (which I was surprised they didnt mention my old 9 points from 6years ago, i thought they would still have it on record even though it wasnt on my license), they discussed it for a minute, I overheard them saying maximum was 56 days. They asked me to stand and gave me:

28 day ban and a £400 fine, reduced to £280 for originally pleading guilty.

So thats what i got, which considering I would have got 56 days isnt bad.....my issue though was that every other person int he court was a scaffy chavvy tink who all turned up late, in their trackies with bad attitudes and all seemed to fair alot betterthan I did.

The person before me had 3 previous convictions of no insurance, he wasan absolute scab on society, was caught speeding in a fifty (i missed by how much though) anyhoo, in my eyes my case was not a s bad as him......and he came away with 6 points and a £100 fine!!!!!

All the others in court were pretty much the same story...I was the onlyone to be banned. So i think that dressing smart, being early, being respectful and beng absolutely genuinly remorseful means f-all. Whilst I was there watching what everyone else wasgetting away with I convinced myself that I was going to cruise it, so when he said disqualified I wasgutted and shocked!

My advise is to attend court late, dress like a scaff, give everyone attitude, tell them you have one hundred bairns on benefits, your unemployed and a scumbag and you'll be sorted!!!

If i was to do it all again I would bite the bullet and lie and tell them my employer was going to sack me if I lostmy lisence, I thought that gig had been done to death and the courts would see right through it, so went for a more classy appraoch, but im not entirely sure how much that helped.

I will be checking this post for a while so if anyone has questions about this or attending court, please give me a shout. I wish I had found out more about the procedures at court beforehand as i felt confusedmost of the morning and ended up asking staff loads of questions.

thanks to everyone that has helped me on here though, its appreciated!
mpaso
I know exactly how you feel Tylo,

I think our bans are entirely down to the fact that we were caught doing 3 figures. MAG's just see 100+ and think, reckless boy racer... BAN HIM!

Why "bitch"?

Where in the country were you tried?

18 days left for me...

Public transport stinks!

captain swoop
If you had told them you were going to get sacked would it have helped? You have to show hardship to others.
What were you expecting to get? 28 days and 250 sounds OK considering the speed. IF you had gone with the attitude you mention you would have got more.
Tylo
QUOTE (mpaso @ Sun, 6 Jun 2010 - 21:46) *
I know exactly how you feel Tylo,

I think our bans are entirely down to the fact that we were caught doing 3 figures. MAG's just see 100+ and think, reckless boy racer... BAN HIM!

Why "bitch"?

Where in the country were you tried?

18 days left for me...

Public transport stinks!


I wasnt far from home, the 'bitch' was very strange, before the court started she was happy smiley laughing, then as soon as the whole rigmarole started she turned into a creature of evil....scowling at all the defendants, speaking to you like a piece of sh.t, just generally horrible. Lured you in and turned! lol

God yeah, public transport really sucks! im 6 days in now and im close to tears evertime I have to stand at a stinking bus stop with some stinky homeless person and some sleezebag. I cant wait to be driving again.

What was your crime and punishment?

QUOTE (captain swoop @ Sun, 6 Jun 2010 - 21:59) *
If you had told them you were going to get sacked would it have helped? You have to show hardship to others.
What were you expecting to get? 28 days and 250 sounds OK considering the speed. IF you had gone with the attitude you mention you would have got more.


There was meant to be sarcasm in that comment, im not entirely stupid, lol.

All i am saying is, it seemed to work for the 'scum' of the courtroom. Everyone that didnt get banned played the sacking card and did quite fine...no mention of hardship to others. I have always understood that hardship has to be to others, im very clear on this although everyone seems to keep repeating it ALOT, I know! I just dont think Mags knew that????

I wouldnt have had a problem with the punishment if i wasnt unfortunate enough to have seen what all the others got. Punishment was fair, but i dont feel everyone elses punishment was fair.
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