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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
c2s
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - 4 April 2010
Date of the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A64(w) Grimston Bar
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? -
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

I was caught speeding on the A64 (dual carriageway) yesterday and although I accept I may have been, it was only for a brief moment.

As I passed under a bridge which passes over the A64, I believe that I was caught speeding via a speed gun from an officer parked on the slip road which joined the road in the direction I was heading.

The officer who recorded the speed via a speed gun set off after me in his patrol car to which end he pulled me over a mile or so later. It wasn't far from the actual incident. The reason for this was that I believe the speed was recorded as I carried out an overtaking manoeuvre and having completed the manoeuvre slowed to below the 70mph speed limit and carried on as normal hence the reason the patrol car caught me up pretty quickly.

I was asked to sit in the rear of the patrol car, to which the officer told me he had stopped me for speeding, read me my rights and then proceeded to ask me the following.

Do I know the speed limit for this road. I said yes, it's 70mph.

He then asked if I knew what speed I was doing when he caught me with the speed gun. I said no.

He then showed me the reading on the back of the gun which stated -112mph. At this point I nearly passed out. I presume the minus means I was going away from the officer.

The NIP which was handed to me at the roadside, having been stopped by the Police recorded a speed of 112mph at 976ft (298 metres).

I'm completely distraught with the whole situation and although I accept I may have exceeded the speed limit to carry out the overtaking manoeuvre it was only for a brief moment to which end I returned to the inside lane and carried on at below the speed limit. I suppose I should say that I was driving a Porsche and to hit 112mph takes only a few seconds from 60mph, it's not like I was in a car which needed 5 miles to get up to that speed.

I cannot tell you how distraught I am over this.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes - I was handed the NIP personally
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 09:55:13 +0000
Grant_W
Could you have been doing that speed then?

Disqualification may be on the cards for you.
Durzel
First off, "only doing XXXmph briefly" doesn't mean anything I'm afraid.

Do you need your licence for work (need to be clear here - would you lose your job without a licence or would it be simply inconvenient for you to get to work?) Do you have dependants who would suffer unfairly if you were to lose your job as a consequence of losing your licence?
c2s
Hi Grant.

I guess in all honesty it is possible, albeit it seems very high. It couldn't have been for more than 5 seconds or so.

Thanks.
c2s
Durzel,

My circumstances are complicated.

However, yes I do need the car for my work as I am self employed. I also have a dependent child which would suffer unduly if I I wasn't able to provide.

The whole thing is incredibly stressful. I've owned the car for over 4 years, not had one incident with the law. The ironic thing is the car has been up for sale for quite some time, but alas with the economic situation I just cannot sell it without incurring more debt as a result.

It's all just a terrible mess.

Thanks again.
Roverboy
112mph on an A road is almost certainly going to get you a ban unless you can show exceptional circumstances to the mag. I'm afraid "It was only while I was overtaking m'lud" will carry no weight at all.

Best advice, is the usual, go to court (assume you will i'm afraid) suited and booted, be contrite and look and act remorseful.

You could try for a newton hearing, but given the recorded speed and what you were driving it's unlikely to wash with the CPS guy, but, don't ask, don't get.
Durzel
What were the conditions like? Weather, traffic density, etc.

Your clean licence should work in your favour. Mentioning that you've been trying to sell the car since the incident will demonstrate that you've realised how dangerous speed is, etc. Likewise turning up looking suited and booted prepared to receive a lecture is a good idea.

As said above however for that speed you'll need to work on the basis that you'll be disqualified for a short period (7-56 days, likely to be closer to 56 than 7).
c2s
It was a lovely dry, sunny day, good visibility. The road was surprisingly quiet for a bank holiday as most of the traffic was on the other carriageway going to the coast I suspect.

The car has been up for sale for nearly a year. The only reason I was out in it was that I was persuaded to attend a Porsche enthusiasts meeting and was driving it home afterwards. Typical really. sad.gif
The Rookie
So the car has been up for sale since the incident (the fact it was beforehand you can be silent about - just don't lie).

It matters not how long you were speeding for, its a limit (legaly) not advice!

I think you can expect a 56day ban, pleading guilty and giving some sensible mitigation/hardship arguments may help.

Simon
mpaso
Hi there my friend.


As someone who is in the exact same position as you please keep the forum informed as to the outcome of this.


Best wishes.
c2s
Just an update.

Stood before the man in the grey wig this morning, well an elderly lady actually, and I can't be sure it was a wig! smile.gif

I just thought I'd update you all.

112mph is 112mph and the fact it was in a Porsche makes sentencing far easier, the fact you need your licence for work etc doesn't matter. Disqualified for 56 days and have to re-apply for my licence when the time comes. I guess the fine is irrelevant on the basis it's all means tested. Others that were also there seemed to get 6 points for 103 mph and £300 fine.

I believe the 2 mph over the 110 makes it a maximum disqualification period of 56 days.

Gutted, but wise enough to accept punishment where punishment is due. sad.gif
Durzel
It's discretionary, but "112mph on an A road in a Porsche" was always going to attract the bare minimum of sympathy I'm afraid. sad.gif
The Rookie
The penalty for speeding is points OR a ban, the maximum number of points they can give is 6.

103 in a 70 is on the cusp of a ban, £300 fine suggests they have a weekly take home pay of about £300 (about normal for a blue collar worker), 112 as we said was always going to be a ban, and its hard to argue 56 days as excessive for that speed.

The 2mph over 110 isn't that relevant there is no specific guideline at that point, but the punishmnets do escalate quite quickly over the psycological 100mph and over 110mph more so.

Simon
jobo
thought you only had to reapply if you ban was OVER 56 days ?

is it 56 days and over ?
The Rookie
56 and over......
mpaso
Thanks for updating this C2s.

56 day ban is a choker!

Hope i have a more sympathetic MAG (if such a thing exists)

Tuesday the 18th is my day of hell!

What does reapply mean? Do you have to take your test again + theory?

Cannot believe how bloody harsh the law is regarding speeding!!!
southpaw82
QUOTE (mpaso @ Wed, 5 May 2010 - 14:49) *
What does reapply mean? Do you have to take your test again + theory?


No, it means you have to fill in a form and ask the DVLA for your licence back - and probably pay a fee as well.
mpaso
c2s - could you talk me through exactly what happened in court from beginning to end, would really help me.

Thanks

..........................

Thanks southpaw82.
The Rookie
QUOTE (mpaso @ Wed, 5 May 2010 - 14:49) *
Cannot believe how bloody harsh the law is regarding speeding!!!

The average burglar, convicted in court, revies a lower fine than the average paid penalty for parking offences, just as well Tony was tough on crime eh, or we would be really soft on them.

Simon
c2s
QUOTE (mpaso @ Wed, 5 May 2010 - 14:57) *
c2s - could you talk me through exactly what happened in court from beginning to end, would really help me.

Thanks

..........................

Thanks southpaw82.


To be honest, I was in for about 50 minutes compared to the others which were done and dusted in 5 to 10 minutes max so I doubt I could remember it all. If you have a specific question I would be only too pleased to help.

I have 49 days, 10h, 41m and 39seconds to go. sad.gif
roythebus
We all know speeding kills, haha, so do burglars, muggers and the ilk. But, being a driver with a Porsche, you are taken to be reasonably affluent, even if you're not.

High price cars are a nick magnet, and their drivers a cash cow for the judicial system, sorry to say.
c2s
8 Days to go. blob7.gif
Logician
Remember to apply for your new licence, you cannot legally drive until the end of the disqualification and you have the new licence.
c2s
QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 21 Jun 2010 - 22:22) *
Remember to apply for your new licence, you cannot legally drive until the end of the disqualification and you have the new licence.


It's a good point, however this is from the http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drive...ions/DG_4022491


Driving before your licence is returned

Once DVLA has received your valid application you can drive before you receive your licence as long as you:

* have held a GB or Northern Ireland licence issued since 1 January 1976 or another exchangeable licence
* aren’t disqualified from driving (there are different rules for medium or large vehicles, minibus or bus drivers - the traffic commissioner for your area will decide whether to grant your entitlement to drive these vehicles)
* haven’t been refused a licence for medical reasons or for failing to comply with medical enquiries
* wouldn’t be refused a licence for medical reasons (if in doubt, check with your doctor)
* keep to any special conditions which apply to the licence

southpaw82
Thread tidied. If you want to rant do it elsewhere.
c2s
Forgot to update this thread. Sorry about that. As people were only to happy to offer advice/solace when I need it (thanks) thought I'd let you know the outcome.

Went to court, was in for 30 minutes whilst they reviewed my plea and mitigating circumstances and ended up with a 56 day ban and £150 fine + £80 costs I think it was.

The magistrates went to great lengths to mention the car I was driving to the extent event the prosecutor went on record saying "I think we all know what car he was driving, there is no need to mention it in every sentence!". I was shocked but she was right!

Thanks again for everyone's time, it helped to calm the nerves. rolleyes.gif
jobo
harsh ban, generous fine
The Rookie
Tend to agree, I would have expected 28, but 56 is not so far off as to be worth appealing.

If someone was doing 112 I'd rather it was in a car capable of stopping and handling at that speed like a Porsche than a clapped out XR3i to be honest!

Simon
c2s
I'm not sure if I mentioned it earlier on in the thread but because it was a "Porsche" the officer went to great lengths to tell everyone he stopped that day that he'd just done a Porsche and was very proud of it by all accounts. The 4 other people who went into court before me all asked if I was the Porsche driver and the Police constable was very pleased with himself. Ah well, old news n all.... onwards and upwards...

It was strange hearing what convictions were coming out of the court room whilst I waited my turn. It appeared the magistrate bent and buckled to the stories of pending hardship etc. All were in 5 minutes maximum, yet it seemed to be a topic of conversation that I was driving a Porsche. It got very tedious towards the end having been subjected to a lot of repetitiveness for half an hour.

Great site everyone.
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