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zzkj
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2010
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Kings Hedges Road, Cambridge
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - New car, I wasn't paying attention to how fast it accelerated. When I realised I started to slow down but the camera had already taken a picture. I honestly believed the road was a 40 zone (it turns out after much investigation that this was revoked a few years ago), if I'd thought it was 30 I would have realised I was travelling too fast much sooner.

I'm absolutely gutted, I was quite proud of my clean record and this has left me stressed out and not sleeping properly with a sick feeling in my stomach.

Obviously I'm not going to contest the facts or that I was driving, in the additional information section do you think it's worth me explaining my mistake with the limit, as long as I also point out I realise I would still have exceeded it, and that I'm very sorry? I really don't want a ban, I'm the only person in the immediate family in Cambridge with any transport.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:41:33 +0000
southpaw82
I can't see you admitting that you had no idea what the speed limit was will be of much help to you.
jobo
a ban is on the cards at what speed is alledged
zzkj
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 18:35) *
I can't see you admitting that you had no idea what the speed limit was will be of much help to you.


Maybe you're right, I can't believe I was actually going that fast, I remember seeing the needle just under 50 when I saw the van. I stopped just after the van and went to check the limit was 40, and was told it was 30. The policeman also told me it "has always been 30" which bothered me as I was sure there were 40 signs there for years. The local council was actively obstructive with regards to handing me records of changes, but eventually I found a document detailing when the 40 was abolished - not that it helps now.

Should I express how sorry I am on the NIP form, or just save it for court?

I feel absolutely awful, I live within walking distance of work but am on-call and sometimes need to get on site fast. More than that though, I'm letting my partner and local family down, and I've ruined a clean record I was quite proud of, I normally don't even go above 70 on Motorways, and keep well under the limit in residential areas. I'm going to get punished (probably harshly) for one mistake on an open scrubland road while the kids who use our residential street as a drag strip get away with it day and night.
southpaw82
Save it for court.
jobo
any ban would be in the order of a few weeks

maybe only two or three

just out of interest was there street lighting on the road


save it for court nobody of any importance reads the nip/172 return

best suit and a very sorry attitude will help as may hardship to others coursed by the ban
zzkj
QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 19:40) *
any ban would be in the order of a few weeks

maybe only two or three

just out of interest was there street lighting on the road


save it for court nobody of any importance reads the nip/172 return

best suit and a very sorry attitude will help as may hardship to others coursed by the ban


Yes - there's lighting, I went back to check. There's not even a pavement on one side of the road, the other side is a housing estate which is walled off. I'll try to get hold of a suit from somewhere - this is going to sound naive but does it really help above just making sure you're presentable? I don't own one at the moment and this is going to cost me a lot as it is.

Is it worth getting legal advice now or should I wait until I get a response to the NIP return? Is legal advice not worth it at all in this case?

Thanks for the replies by the way.
southpaw82
QUOTE (zzkj @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 19:59) *
Is it worth getting legal advice now or should I wait until I get a response to the NIP return? Is legal advice not worth it at all in this case?


Isn't that what you're getting here, for free?
Grant_W
QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 18:38) *
a ban is on the cards at what speed is alledged


Why?

More like 6 points and £300.
zzkj
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 20:27) *
QUOTE (zzkj @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 19:59) *
Is it worth getting legal advice now or should I wait until I get a response to the NIP return? Is legal advice not worth it at all in this case?


Isn't that what you're getting here, for free?



Sorry - wrong question really - do you consider a solicitor worthwhile, or should I just attend the court date alone? Way too early to be thinking about that?
southpaw82
If you're pleading guilty you'll be forking out several hundred pounds to get a solicitor to present your mitigation for you, which might save you £100 off the fine... not really good economics.
Logician
As others have said, you are looking at either 6 points or a short ban.

Two questions:
1. How long ago was the limit changed?
See this article signs to indicate new speed limits and the Kidderminster case

2. I assume when you say there were lights, that they were no more than 200 yards apart? Were there 30 mph repeater signs on the road?
Normally highway authorities must not put 30mph repeater signs on a road with street lights, but there is an argument that in certain circumstances where the status of the road has changed, then they have to. See this article question and answer section, and see if the road comes within it.


This is rather abstruse stuff, probably rather difficult to pursue, unless you really want to make an issue of it. You might just use the (presumed) absence of a change of speed limit sign as mitigation, print out a copy to demonstate the sign that could have been there.
zzkj
QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 22:44) *
As others have said, you are looking at either 6 points or a short ban.

Two questions:
1. How long ago was the limit changed?
See this article signs to indicate new speed limits and the Kidderminster case

2. I assume when you say there were lights, that they were no more than 200 yards apart? Were there 30 mph repeater signs on the road?
Normally highway authorities must not put 30mph repeater signs on a road with street lights, but there is an argument that in certain circumstances where the status of the road has changed, then they have to. See this article question and answer section, and see if the road comes within it.


This is rather abstruse stuff, probably rather difficult to pursue, unless you really want to make an issue of it. You might just use the (presumed) absence of a change of speed limit sign as mitigation, print out a copy to demonstate the sign that could have been there.


1) 2007 unfortunately. Three years ago, but having been a driver in this area for 15 years, I was used to 40 and never noticed they'd taken the signs down. I'm still angry that the camera operator told me "this has always been a 30 zone, you should know that". If I'd thought it was a 30 zone I'd have realised I was going way too fast and slowed down. I didn't argue with him, maybe he's new to the area. They did add two speed camera signs some years ago, but I'd assumed they were enforcing the 40 limit so I'd have sailed past a Gatso at that in the belief that I was doing the right thing, this was the first time I've ever actually seen any kind of camera there though.

2) The lights are closer than 200 yards apart I'd say, of course they were there long before they changed the limit but I think a few were added when they built the new power substation on the scrubland next to the road. That's where they like to park the van now (on a long sweeping corner of course).

It's looking like I'll just have to hope the magistrate is in a good mood whenever this goes to court, and doesn't decide I'm some kind of boy racer or habitual speeder, I'm really not.
zzkj
Well if anyone keeps tabs on results, they finally sent me a court summons a few weeks ago, just after I started to think they weren't going to.

I went to court today, horrible experience - they said before the proceedings even started that I was looking at a 3 week ban, but after they'd questioned me and I'd had a chance to apologise, they took my clean record into account.

Result: 450 fine+costs, and 6 points on the license.

I do wonder if sticking with a ban would have been better in the long run to avoid totting up, but - at least its over now, the whole experience was incredibly traumatic - lost sleep, lost focus at work, strained things at home. I do with they'd give the police the power to deal with these directly instead of dragging people through court cases by default. Luckily I'd just sold my second car (couldn't afford to keep it) so at least there's money in the kitty for the fine.
Durzel
The Police do have the power to deal with speeding offences directly by issuing Fixed Penalty Notices at the roadside, but for 53 in a 30 it was always going to go to court.

If it's any consolation you would've got done doing 53 whether the limit had been 40 or 30.
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