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spud0112
Hi. I've just registered on this site and I need some guidance.
I'm a service engineer that works all over the country and travel approx 40-50k miles a year. I also cover 24 hour emergency call outs every 7 weeks (Hereford and Worcester Fire Stations been one of our clients).I have a partner and 2 children and I am the sole earner. At the moment I have 9 points on my licence (should be 6 but that's another story) and I was told by work last week that I have been flashed by a Gatso doing 40 in a 30. This was on the 8th March. My boss then told me yesterday that I have had another come through from the 12th of March.He didn't have the paper work at hand so I don't know many details. I don't remember seeing the first one although I have a vauge recolection of the second one,which I think may have only flashed once.
There is a very serious chance that I will lose my job if I get convicted and banned for these. My missus has said that she will take the blame and the points to save my job but I am uncomfartable with this.

I will be really grateful of any advice that can be sent my way.

Cheers

peterguk
QUOTE (spud0112 @ Wed, 24 Mar 2010 - 19:44) *
My missus has said that she will take the blame and the points to save my job but I am uncomfartable with this.



I hear the mattresses supplied courtesy of HMP are uncomfortable too. You're right to feel that way - don't do it.

Your boss should complete and return the NIPs and you will receive your own in the future.

I suggest posting up using the NIP Wizard when you receive them.

BTW, no type of employer or client warrants their employees speeding to and from jobs - moreso sitting on 9 points.
The Rookie
Please clarify the points on your licence, for 'totting' purposes they count for 3 years from date of offence, although remain visible for 4, what are you previous conviction dates?

You can escape one totting ban by pleading undue hardship, but that woukd still leave you banned (for 6 months) for the second.

The why's and werefore of each case are not relevant when it comes to totting, but you can look at whether you can contest one or the other, or whether you may be eligeable for a course for one (40 in a 30 doesn't qualify) thus giving you a chance.

Once you get a 'NIP' in your name post the details using the NIP wizard (link top right) so we can look for defects in each case.

Simon

spud0112
OK,thanks for that.

I haven't got my counterpart licence to hand at the minute to confirm dates but I am pretty certain that they are within the last 2 years. There are 3 points for a red light offence and what should have been 3 points for a speeding offence turned into 6 points and £600 fine for not supplying driver details,which incidentally I did on paper but could not provide my licence as Birmingham fines office didn't return it (lost apparently) after endorsing the red light offence.Like I say,that's another story and I could do with getting a bit of advice on that also!!
Kensington
Depending on how long you have worked there, your employer has a statutory obligation to attempt to maintain your employment should you loose your driving licence, even if it means you cleaning the bogs for a few months!
jobo
this insnt really to true


QUOTE (Kensington @ Fri, 26 Mar 2010 - 11:14) *
Depending on how long you have worked there, your employer has a statutory obligation to attempt to maintain your employment should you loose your driving licence, even if it means you cleaning the bogs for a few months!
london_loulou
As far as i understood it, then if you are not capable to do the job you were employed to do, then they can terminate employment. They may wish to offer you an office based job if they value you and your experience, but if your job description is a driver and you cant drive, i would be doubtful that they have to. If it were through illness or injury, that would be a different story.
Kensington
Click on this link and see section 'A Statutory Restriction'. There you will see that 'Your employer would be expected to try and find other suitable work for you before choosing to dismiss you'.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Red...issal/DG_175834

...which is basically what I said in my post (# 5).
jobo
no it doesnt read it again, it says your employer must TRY and find other work for you, they have no obligation to find it or even to try very hard to do so


QUOTE (Kensington @ Fri, 26 Mar 2010 - 16:53) *
Click on this link and see section 'A Statutory Restriction'. There you will see that 'Your employer would be expected to find other suitable work for you before choosing to dismiss you'.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Red...issal/DG_175834

...which is basically what I said in my post (# 5).
Kensington
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 26 Mar 2010 - 16:59) *
no it doesnt read it again, it says your employer must TRY and find other work for you, they have no obligation to find it or even to try very hard to do so


This is what I said:

Depending on how long you have worked there, your employer has a statutory obligation to attempt to maintain your employment should you loose your driving licence, even if it means you cleaning the bogs for a few months!

Sorry I did miss out the word 'try', but in any event I thought 'ATTEMPT' and 'TRY' had more or less the same meaning.
jobo
maybe to you they do ??


they need to consider IF their is a suitable vaccancy to which you could be redeployed

if there is no cleaning the bogs job sat there waiting for you, then your on your way, its just a hoop to jump through

they dont as you seem to think have to create a vacancy for you

QUOTE (Kensington @ Fri, 26 Mar 2010 - 17:08) *
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 26 Mar 2010 - 16:59) *
no it doesnt read it again, it says your employer must TRY and find other work for you, they have no obligation to find it or even to try very hard to do so


This is what I said:

Depending on how long you have worked there, your employer has a statutory obligation to attempt to maintain your employment should you loose your driving licence, even if it means you cleaning the bogs for a few months!

Sorry, but I thought 'ATTEMPT' and 'TRY' had more or less the same meaning.
Kensington
I never said they had to 'create a vacancy' for you! I've been in this pickle myself so I know the score. I had a good employment record so when it happened to me, I was found something else (not cleaning the bogs by the way). As it states in Direct Gov.com the employer is expected to try and find you something else to maintain your employement which I don't think most people realize (including you I bet), which is why I posted this info here to hopefully benefit the OP which is what forums like this are all about. I don't think its much of a help when people get shot down in flames for sharing such legislation which may help others.

What are you advising the OP to do then... throw the towel in and resign?
jobo
seems as im IPD qualified, i actually did know

but as we now seem to be agreed, that it is at the employers discretion, unless they have an obvious and immediately vacancy available for which they judge you suitable and there's not many companies that keep a job free just in case


i believe help does agree giving false hope
spud0112
I'll check it out.

With the situation with vehicles at our place at the moment,it's been 10 months since I had my own van. I've been making up a 2 man team with my brother or other mate and don't always have to drive. What cocks things up is the fact that I need to be on the call out rota. I'd hope that the gaffer would keep me on as a mate but I'll bet that he would lower my wage and that would grieve me as I do things that the other 2 can't.

Kensington
Probably but at least you will maintain your employment.
spud0112
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2010
Date of the NIP: - 15 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 16 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A41 B'ham Rd Nr Halfords Lane Twd 1 M5, Sandwell
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company van,driven on occasions whilst waiting for my own van within the company.
How many current points do you have? - 9
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I have no recolection of the camera flashing. Our vans have a tracker fitted.The office checked this and I was told that on the day in question,my mate who usually has the van had to stay at the yard all day and I went to jobs in Manchester and some others but I vaguely remember her saying that was the 08/03/10 (not the date of the alleged offence) so I need to double check the tracker against both our daily time sheets. This could mean that there might have been 2 of us in the van and there is no way that either of us would recall who was driving.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:10:30 +0000
spud0112
How do I go about requesting the photographic evidence?
southpaw82
Simple letter thus:

QUOTE
Dear Sirs,

Ref NIP number XXX.

Please could you supply me with any photos you may have that might assist me in identifying the driver at the time.

Yours faithfully,
spud0112
Thanks
srg
QUOTE (spud0112 @ Fri, 2 Apr 2010 - 15:09) *
Thanks


Remember thought that requesting photos dosen't "stop the clock" as regards your responsibility to return the S172 form (ie name the driver) within the 28 days which they give you.
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