Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: 9 points and worried as hell ! Might've been caught again !
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
lucky777
Dear All,

Lots of questions needing answered as Im worrying myself sick at the moment !

So I have 9 points on licence currently. 3 points for a no right turn through a red light apparently, 2 lots of 3 points for speeding within a few months of each other.

On Tuesday this week I was in a 50 limit and came over a downward hill on dual cway and to my horror saw the camera van sat on the verge ! I wacked my brakes on hard as hell and glanced at my speedo and it was just under 70mph !

1st question is : My sat nav states 62mph when my speedo is doing just under 70mph, is the sat nav reading the same reading which will come up on their laser device ?

2nd question is : do these laser devices take a few seconds to register your speed, as I did really jam the brakes on hard like an emergency stop pretty much, as I knew nothing behind me and I'm so vigilant always looking far into the distance for cameras, hence I'm hoping I may have dropped speed significantly in the split second of coming into range of radar/laser ?

3rd question is : my 3 points for the red light offence are 3 years old come this August, is it possible to delay court proceedings long enough that these may have expired if I do get a NIP, considering my car is a leased company car and there will be some delay in the NIP getting to me and with the 28 day response period etc... ??

4th question is : I do 60,000 miles a year for my employer in this car, can they sack me if I get a ban ?

5th question is : I could prove that I generally have a heavy diary of work and in the past the company have put on unrealistic journey timings for my appointments.

6th question is : with the 14 day issue rule, I won't know if the NIP does arrive within the 14 day period as it won't be coming straight to me and so therefore won't be able to show the date of receipt on envelope as evidence possibly if it were late ?

7th question is : I've just started volunteer work helping out/developing relationships with all the disadvantaged for Horse Riding for the Disabled Association. Also my parents are both fairly old now, Mum 70 and Dad 77 this year, Dad's stopped driving because of his hip and I take him food shopping each week (he does all the food shopping and cooking since he retired). Also my work is helping people solve their financial problems and I feel that I give the best advice very sincerely and provide a sympathetic ear and lots of reassurance to our clients... I don't have any children to support, but I own a house and provide lodgings for two other people whose accommodation could possibly be put at risk if I were to lose my job and if my mortgage were to be in jeapordy... would the above be good evidence of "hardship to others" ? Does hardship to others include animals ? I have 3 horses that I rescued from neglect years ago and I would hate to be in a position where I couldn't tend to them and would have to up root them to new homes sad.gif it would be very difficult without a licence to continue to look after them!

I dearly hope I am panicking over nothing and there were several other cars on the inside lane in front of me and Im praying to God that maybe the radar man was concentrating on one of those instead of me, but I have to prepare myself for the worst just in case !!!

Responses greatly appreciated and yes if need be I will be hiring a specialist lawyer recommended on this site !

Many thanks to the people who run this site as it provides much needed advice !

x
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 - 23:57) *
1st question is : My sat nav states 62mph when my speedo is doing just under 70mph, is the sat nav reading the same reading which will come up on their laser device ?

The SatNav is likely to be close to the true speed.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 - 23:57) *
2nd question is : do these laser devices take a few seconds to register your speed, as I did really jam the brakes on hard like an emergency stop pretty much, as I knew nothing behind me and I'm so vigilant always looking far into the distance for cameras, hence I'm hoping I may have dropped speed significantly in the split second of coming into range of radar/laser ?

They can determine the speed of a vehicle in under 1/2 a second.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 - 23:57) *
3rd question is : my 3 points for the red light offence are 3 years old come this August, is it possible to delay court proceedings long enough that these may have expired if I do get a NIP, considering my car is a leased company car and there will be some delay in the NIP getting to me and with the 28 day response period etc... ??

A delay doesn't help you, as it is the active points at the time of the offence which is counted for totting up.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 - 23:57) *
4th question is : I do 60,000 miles a year for my employer in this car, can they sack me if I get a ban ?

Almost certainly.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 - 23:57) *
5th question is : I could prove that I generally have a heavy diary of work and in the past the company have put on unrealistic journey timings for my appointments.

Wouldn't help.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 - 23:57) *
6th question is : with the 14 day issue rule, I won't know if the NIP does arrive within the 14 day period as it won't be coming straight to me and so therefore won't be able to show the date of receipt on envelope as evidence possibly if it were late ?

The RK (possibly a lease company) needs to be served the initial NIP within 14 days. You could find out who is actually the RK and contact them to see if they have a record of when the NIP arrived.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 - 23:57) *
7th question is : I've just started volunteer work helping out/developing relationships with all the disadvantaged for Horse Riding for the Disabled Association. Also my parents are both fairly old now, Mum 70 and Dad 77 this year, Dad's stopped driving because of his hip and I take him food shopping each week (he does all the food shopping and cooking since he retired). Also my work is helping people solve their financial problems and I feel that I give the best advice very sincerely and provide a sympathetic ear and lots of reassurance to our clients... I don't have any children to support, but I own a house and provide lodgings for two other people whose accommodation could possibly be put at risk if I were to lose my job and if my mortgage were to be in jeapordy... would the above be good evidence of "hardship to others" ? Does hardship to others include animals ? I have 3 horses that I rescued from neglect years ago and I would hate to be in a position where I couldn't tend to them and would have to up root them to new homes sad.gif it would be very difficult without a licence to continue to look after them!

Hardship needs to be towards others, I have no idea is this include animals!
ford poplar
IMO
Q2 the laser could have got you before you see them
Q3 speeding et al points are backdated to date of offence
Q4 check your contract of employment but if a driving licence is required...yes
Q5 No, your standard of driving is your responsibility, if your employer is not reaonable on journey times that is between you/them/union
Q6 Original NIP is sent to RK (not you app), they should return it naming you as the driver, not give it to you. You get your own NIP which is not covered by 14 day rule in this situation

You are in for an anxious wait so lets save Q7 if/until you get a NIP and post the NIP wizard.
lucky777
Ok, thanks for quick responses, I'm off to bed now to have nightmares sad.gif and hope for more opinions which might ease my mind !
DJBrenton
One thing that might be in your favour is that most speedos done't react as fast as your brakes. If you stamped on the brakes and theen glanced at the speedo, you will have been far slower at that moment than 70.
lucky777
Yes good point DJ, I expect the camera man saw my front valence nearly scrape the tarmac lol !! I would've glanced and braked at same time, so yes good likelyhood, if my reactions fast enough that a good 10mph was dropped hopefully ! unsure.gif
lucky777
"A delay doesn't help you, as it is the active points at the time of the offence which is counted for totting up."

So how does this work then exactly? Say 14 day issue takes date received at Lex vehicle leasing to 30th March... Lex send on to my company say that arrives a week later 6th April, my company usually take their time, so add another week 13th April I might receive NIP. I then have 28 days to respond 11th May.... I then ask for video evidence ? Not sure how long this takes to come through ??? Say a week to 18th May, ignore all police reminders ??? Until court summons comes no idea how long this could work out as ? Maybe another 5 weeks to 22nd June ? I could then be ill in time for court date so that it's adjourned ? another month ? 27th July and if they've not provided video evidence in all this time then I believe I can ask court to adjourn again maybe ? probably taking another couple weeks at least and by this time my licence will be down to 6 points, I send off for new licence and show that when I go to court. Do they do a DVLA check rather than accept your licence at that time in court ?

At least I can delay any punishment until later in the year ? Means I can save up for the solicitor fees lol ! Dont know what Im laughing about really wacko.gif
nemo
Points are counted for totting for 3 years.
They are not eligible to be removed from your licence for at least 4 years.
They require to be disclosed to insurers for 5 years.

All taken from date of offence.
Sangamoura
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Sat, 20 Mar 2010 - 13:08) *
"A delay doesn't help you, as it is the active points at the time of the offence which is counted for totting up."

So how does this work then exactly?
It's very simple, if you commit an offence say today and you have 9 points it doesn't matter how long it takes for the actual prosecution to go through, it is the date of the offence which counts.

Say it took a year during which all your existing 9 points all expired, if you got 3 points for the new offence you could still be banned based on the fact you had 9 points at the time you committed it.

Think about it, if it were possible to artificially delay a prosecution or court appearance and a potential ban until existing points had expired then at any given moment there could be hundreds if not thousands of people hiding from the police in an attempt to evade it.
lucky777
Yes I see what you mean... just clutching at straws !
lucky777
Hi again,

still suffering anxiety attacks in the lead up to possible NIP and had a nightmare I was riding a bicycle with a puncture lol !!! Couple of quick questions hoping to get answered...

Is the 14 day rule working days or including weekends ???

Is there a good thread all about upping your odds of TIMEOUT ???

What happens if the disclosure of driver to's and fro's between you and the other possible named driver/s ? WIth one accusing the other with no conclusion ?

Thanks for taking time to read and reply if you do smile.gif
peterguk
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 21:38) *
Is the 14 day rule working days or including weekends ???


Calendar days. Offence day is day 0.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 21:38) *
Is there a good thread all about upping your odds of TIMEOUT ???


You can try upping the odds by not responding to any notices until a few days inside the limit, and send by Recorded/Special Delivery. Unlikely to happen in a simple case though.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 21:38) *
What happens if the disclosure of driver to's and fro's between you and the other possible named driver/s ? WIth one accusing the other with no conclusion ?


Not an issue here, since you have clearly stated you were driving. To answer your question, it depends on the circumstances in each case. In most cases, a S.172 charge is made.
Top Cat
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 21:38) *
What happens if the disclosure of driver to's and fro's between you and the other possible named driver/s ? WIth one accusing the other with no conclusion ?


I'm sure you're not but don't consider this path for your current dilemma,you've already stated you were driving.

If you tell porkies about who was driving and they find out you are facing a charge of perverting the course of justice for which a custodial sentence is almost certain upon conviction.
lucky777
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 21:50) *
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 21:38) *
Is the 14 day rule working days or including weekends ???


Calendar days. Offence day is day 0.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 21:38) *
Is there a good thread all about upping your odds of TIMEOUT ???


You can try upping the odds by not responding to any notices until a few days inside the limit, and send by Recorded/Special Delivery. Unlikely to happen in a simple case though.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 21:38) *
What happens if the disclosure of driver to's and fro's between you and the other possible named driver/s ? WIth one accusing the other with no conclusion ?


Not an issue here, since you have clearly stated you were driving. To answer your question, it depends on the circumstances in each case. In most cases, a S.172 charge is made.


I've not clearly stated anything on a NIP yet though .....
Top Cat
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 22:16) *
I've not clearly stated anything on a NIP yet though .....


So you're intending to lie on the NIP then?


Porridge for breakfast and don't forget the top bunk is Bubba's!
lucky777
QUOTE (Top Cat @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 22:24) *
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 22:16) *
I've not clearly stated anything on a NIP yet though .....


So you're intending to lie on the NIP then?


Porridge for breakfast and don't forget the top bunk is Bubba's!




I've not said that either ! You're putting words into my mouth !
cashcows
Re your ques 7 & exceptional hardship - I was in court last week and listened to a lawyer make a plea of exceptional hardship for his client. Similar to you - he was on 9 points (sounded like 3 x 3 for speeding) & was pleading guilty to another speeding and looking at 3+ points and a ban due to totting up.

Hardship plea was he was in full time employment but had to travel a considerable distance from home to work & not well served by public transport so produced a letter from employer indicating that a ban would probably result in loss of employment. Introduced issue of elderly parents and child care issues and off went the JP to consider.

JP came back with 3 point & £150 fine but would accept execptional hardship plea and use his discretion to not ban - so guys now on 12 but not banned but another offence and he will be. Lucky break for the guy if you ask me.

So bottom line is maybe worth speaking to a lawyer if theres a chance of saving your licence & employment?
CuriousOrange
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2010 - 23:12) *
I've not said that either ! You're putting words into my mouth !

You know you were driving, so if you receive a NIP/S172 request in relation to this offence, your options are:
- Name yourself.
- Name no-one (guaranteed six points)
- Lie (perverting the course of justice, which generally loses you all help from here, and you're unlikely to find a lawyer who'd help you do that as well. Probability of going to jail and getting a real criminal record if found out, if you're very lucky and not discovered then six points for failing to ID since you wouldn't be able to show reasonable diligence as there couldn't be any).
lucky777
QUOTE (cashcows @ Fri, 26 Mar 2010 - 00:12) *
Re your ques 7 & exceptional hardship - I was in court last week and listened to a lawyer make a plea of exceptional hardship for his client. Similar to you - he was on 9 points (sounded like 3 x 3 for speeding) & was pleading guilty to another speeding and looking at 3+ points and a ban due to totting up.

Hardship plea was he was in full time employment but had to travel a considerable distance from home to work & not well served by public transport so produced a letter from employer indicating that a ban would probably result in loss of employment. Introduced issue of elderly parents and child care issues and off went the JP to consider.

JP came back with 3 point & £150 fine but would accept execptional hardship plea and use his discretion to not ban - so guys now on 12 but not banned but another offence and he will be. Lucky break for the guy if you ask me.

So bottom line is maybe worth speaking to a lawyer if theres a chance of saving your licence & employment?


Yes thanks for the encouraging post and I will be looking for the best lawyer regardless of cost ! Do you have to book the best ones in advance though I was wondering ?
lucky777
Hello everyone,

today is day 14 with day 0 having been 16th March and no NIP at the lease company and no second post !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can I count my chickens yet ? The lease company told me to ring back in couple of days "just in case"???

If the NIP did still arrive do the police contest the 14 day rule usually ?

Can someone point me in the direction of the best top of the range Snoopers on the market please ?

Thanks again and I will def be donating to the fund thing on here, where is that exactly ?
nemo
QUOTE (lucky777 @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 10:19) *
today is day 14 with day 0 having been 16th March and no NIP at the lease company and no second post !

thumbsup.gif

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 10:19) *
Can I count my chickens yet ?

Maybe..

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 10:19) *
The lease company told me to ring back in couple of days "just in case"???

Probably not a bad idea.

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 10:19) *
If the NIP did still arrive do the police contest the 14 day rule usually ?

If the initial NIP was served on the RK outwith 14 days, and if the RK was prepared to provide supporting evidence, then you would have a solid defence even if the police / SCP chose to pursue the matter (subject, of course, to none of the statutory exceptions being applicable - recent change of RK details, incorrect RK address held at DVLA, etc).

QUOTE (lucky777 @ Tue, 30 Mar 2010 - 10:19) *
Thanks again and I will def be donating to the fund thing on here, where is that exactly ?

Try here.

lucky777
Thanks Nemo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.