Is it worth appealing?

I can't believe I done it Can't remember but obviously I did...

Presumably, you have received a Notice of Intended Prosecution ? If so, Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard (including the detailed questions reached by clicking on the Additional Questions button on the second page), and the Wizard will then post its output back here to enable us to help you.

Who, what, why when and where. Oh don't forget how?

Its all in the details and you have given none.. Fixed penalty? Notice of intended prosecution? Summons received? Photos?
Reason for doing so? Did you?

this list goes on but with out your input very little help to you..

Sorry, i'll do the Wizard now and get back to you's

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2010
Date of the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A184 FELLING BY PASS, GATESHEAD
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Personally don't believe I done it but if it's on camera..., i obviously did.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:33:07 +0000

Is there an unmanned red light camera at that location ? If so, you could write to Northumbria Police and request 'copies of any photographs which may assist with indentification of the driver'. Whilst they are under no obligation to comply, the photos they [should] send will allow you to confirm the position of the vehicle and the state of the lights at the time of the alleged offence.

If you do write a letter, avoid asking for 'proof' or 'evidence' and bear in mind that the 28 day response window of the s.172 notice will not be automatically reset, suspended or extended simply because a photo request has been received.

Yes.

OP, do as Nemo has suggested.

I've tried to avoid adding such terms:



That is what i've wrote, any help is MORE than appreciated, i already pay £1,700 on a 1.4 Ford Escort

Far too complicated!

Dear Northumbria Police,

Re: NIP - Registration number XXXXX

I received a NIP dated Y regarding the alleged offence of failing to comply with a red light on Z. I would be grateful if you could send photos to assist identification of the driver.

Yours faithfully,

LiamGTR

Thanks for your reply SRG

Also, it's not the identity of the driver i'm converned about it's how far I was actually over the line and if there was any traffic behind me deeming it unsafe to brake ?

Also when sending the letter do i:

Uee the elvelope they gave me?
Fill in any of the additional paperwork that came with the envelope?

LiamGTR,

They are under no obligation to send you photos unless you turn down any offers of 3 points+fine they send you, go to court and plead not guilty. If you do this and lose, you're heading for a far higher fine.

If you ask for photos to help identify the driver, they are more likely to comply because ACPO suggests they should.

Your choice, but the way we suggest is more likely to yield photos.

Don't forget that asking for photos, dosen't "stop the clock" regarding the 28 days they have given you to name the driver,

You miss the point. If you ask for 'proof' or 'evidence' of the alleged offence (or you are considered to be on a fishing trip), the police will likely cease communication forthwith.

If, on the other hand, you appear to making a genuine request for assistance in identifying the driver (despite you already knowing this information), then you are far more likely to receive a positive response.



Or you could save that for the s.172 request (which will need to be returned within 28 days from the date of service).


Not yet, no.

I see, I have since changed my letter to:


Hope this looks a lot better

Shall I not fill in the S172 and put the letter, in the same envelope?

I notice it's not a free post envelope aswell, haha

That letter is fine - send it in a normal envelope.

Don't complete the S172 form yet - otherwise you are saying you already know the driver - hence your letter sounds fishy.

Keep hold of the S172 form and envelope. You'll need to send them back later - you must ensure you send back the S172 form properly completed on time (preferably recorded delivery and after making a photocopy of it). Hopefully your photos will be here before then.

For this forum I would edit your name if I were you

Ok so even if my photo's aren't here in time I still have to send the S172? Sounds like they are just going to make me wait and send ay way

Thanks for the help and no doubt I am going to be back herre for more help

I've edited your post to remove the NIP ref no - there's no point in identifying yourself to the police.

Thank you, also, this letter I am sending out asking for the picture, I am sending that out recorded I presume?

may as well

Ok thanks Jobo, wil have to be 1st thing Monday morning, been at work at Post Office closes at 12:30 on a Sat around here.

Letter posted at 09:20 this morning, thanks for all the advice.

If I do not hear back from them, when is the latest I should send the S172 form off (recorded 1st post) if I recieved it on the 12th March? And take the 3 points & £60 fine on the chin?

Also, I haven't had a "conditional offer" and nowhere does it tell me what my prosecution is...does this mean i'm going to be banned?

Thanks.

There can be no conditional offer until someone has named themselves. You have 28 days from reciept of the notice to respond, do so no later then 26 days and make sure you send it back using special delivery (or some other trackable service).

So I won't actually know what points and/or fine i've been given until I fill in the S172?

Also i'll be sending it recorded, is that tracked or not do you know?

Again, thanks for all the advice.

How long (if ever) will it take for them to respond to my photo request?

Thanks, Liam.

Who knows ?

I'd suggest posting back here if you have not received a response by Day 25, say..

Hi, I have recieved my photo's but would like your oppinions on them, but on the photo's it is stamped:

"All photographs are Northumbria Police copyright and must not be reproduced without permission"

Does this mean I cannot post them on here?

I would like oppinions because it is clearly my car, but the photo is from the back and my car is passed the line, and fair enough the light is red....but it might have just turned red when the photo was taken?

So the red light is illuminated, your car is over the line... Not sure what there is to question...

no mate the, camera is timed to go off about a second after the light went red

so if they have got a picture of you going through on red, you went through on red ?

Sorry must be my explanation, i'm not actually going through the red light on the photo i'm well past the line, my question was who is to say I didn't just make orange and by the time the photo was taken it was red? Bu obviously if the camera waits a seond or so them i'm a sitting duck.

I have no problem taking responsibility of my actions.

Thanks for all your help, again.

Is the time into red not shown within a datablock on one of the photographs ?

On photo 1 it says R = 01 so i'm guessing that means into red by 1 second?

Yea on that one my back wheels and just over the line, so it looks like I am in the wrong, unfortunately.

The offence is committed if the lights are showing red and any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line, not just the rear wheels.

Exactly, so I think it's quite obvious judging by the photo's.

Looks like i'll have to take it on the chin unfortunately.

These Copyright claims by the police have been soundly dismissed IIRC.

Hi, what do you mean? Thanks.

lots of posts on here discussing this in which the claims of copyright are negated.
don't have a link to the threads so use the search box in the top right hand corner of the screen.

Or in other words copyright does not apply (there is no artistic content) so feel free to post tem for an opinion after washing of identifying details.

Simon

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, s. 45(1)

I have signed and filled in the S 172 (i think that's what it was called?) and accepted responsibility.

On average, how long does it usually take for them to get back to me with what points/fine they are going to slap on me? (Although i'm pretty sure it's going to be 3 points + £60 fine)

Hi,

Does anyone know "how long does it usually take for them to get back to me with what points/fine they are going to slap on me?"

Thanks

A couple of weeks, maybe a month or so (typically) ?

Ok, thank you

My insurance is due April 11th, so what date shall I tell them I recieved the points if they haven't arrived yet ?

Word of warning, my insurance company cancelled my policy a week before renewal when I rang to tell them about my points and then they claimed I wouldn't be receiving my no claims bonus !!! I will be contesting this if this does turn out to be the case ! So as they say, sometimes honesty isn't always your best policy, but on the other hand, I expect they will wriggle out of any claim you made if it had slipped your mind to tell them about your points !!! You can't win either way sometimes !

Seems a very unusual stance for an ins' co' to take cancelling and not renewing a policy just for 3 points, on that basis 1/2 the population would not be able to get insurance. does the OP have other issues with them like a bad claims record?

Luckily (or unluckily depending on how honest you are...)

My insurance is due to end April 11th so i've already paid my last deposit, and if my points etc. don't come for another month or so that means I will be completely finished my current policy before my points are added on (to which I will be telling my new insurance company) so no need for me to lie

Technically to be safe and save any insurance wriggles should the worst happen, you should tell your co immediately you receive points or even if you have a possible conviction pending. give em an inch etc

I completely understand with what you're saying Martin but for the sake of less than a month i'm not prepared to be slapped with a "oh well, since you've now got points we'll have to take another £200 off you before your policy ends"

Being a student is bad enough, but already paying £1,700 on a 1.4 Ford Escort worth no more than £700 is a JOKE!

No I've got 4 years no claims, and this should be my 5th year ! The extra points were taking me to nine points though, so I assume that is why they would no longer insure me ! Stupid thing is I went onto confused.com and put my details in with my 9 points and More Than came up about 7th on the list with not a bad price, but a note in the right hand side saying "refer to insurer" ! ??

Understand now, I incorrectly assumed they were your first and only points.

I always think you should get an insurance discount when on 9 points, your likely to be one of the most careful and law abiding motorists on the road!

Ok got a Conditional Offer through the post of 3 points + £60 fine as I expected.

What are the chances of, if I sent them a letter requesting a higher fine with 0 points...I will get that?

Thanks, Liam.