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Aether
Hi,

Hoping you guys can assist in this matter.
This incident took place between my younger cousin and a police officer.

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Recently, a police officer stopped my cousin and ended up giving him 3 points for a bald tyre.
The fact of the matter is the tyre was not bald and perfectly legal.
I took the car to an MOT station the very next day and they confirmed that all 4 tyres were legal and confirmed this in writing and stamping the document.

What is the best course of action to take?

He was given a producer and 3 points and the offence code was '256 - insufficient tyre thread'.

Now basically what happened was there is a small roundabout and my cousin's car slid on the roundabout (this was not due to excessive speeding/dangerous driving/driving without due care and attention) and the police officer stopped the vehicle put my cousin in a van and said one of his tyres was bald.

My cousin did not sign the producer and told the copper he did not agree and he knows they are newish tyres (he lived local to the incident and offered to go home get a ruler and they could measure the tyre together) The copper said no take the 3 points or i will do you for dangerous driving (yes he sounded like a *****)

Now we WILL be pleading NOT GUILTY to this and DON'T MIND TAKING IT TO COURT but what i would like to know is, what is the law on a copper giving 3 points for a bald tyres what checks to they have to do im sure there has to be some official way of measuring?

Your thoughts are welcome.
kwaks
There are tyre tread measuring devices which should be used, unless the tyre is patently bald to the naked eye then it should have been measured and the depth recorded, along with the percentage of the width that was deemed substandard.
simblack
Its not just tread. It needs to be free from cuts and buldges and have even wear for three quarters of the tyre. Like many things its partly down to the coppers opinion. There are no devices to check for all faults with a tyre but like kwaks says they should have been measured.

If the garage gave them the all clear you have very good grounds to dispute the case
Aether
QUOTE (kwaks @ Sat, 20 Feb 2010 - 14:18) *
There are tyre tread measuring devices which should be used, unless the tyre is patently bald to the naked eye then it should have been measured and the depth recorded, along with the percentage of the width that was deemed substandard.


I thought this was the case, are there any guidelines that i can use to argue that the correct procedure wasn't carried out?
I assume a traffic cop would have these tools to hand? but a normal copper driving about would not have such tools?
I am after a set of guidelines that must be followed any idea where i can find these?

QUOTE (simblack @ Sat, 20 Feb 2010 - 14:31) *
Its not just tread. It needs to be free from cuts and buldges and have even wear for three quarters of the tyre. Like many things its partly down to the coppers opinion. There are no devices to check for all faults with a tyre but like kwaks says they should have been measured.

If the garage gave them the all clear you have very good grounds to dispute the case


Thanks for your reply.
What is the best way of putting this forward then, I myself had a speeding issue 2 years back where i represented myself in court and proved my innocence but had a lot of information to hand to prove the officer hadn't followed correct procedures etc there doesn't seem to be such information available for bald tyre cases..

Durzel
Plead NG, go to court, submit your evidence (letter from garage, etc)
Sangamoura
I'm not convinvced your evidence from the garage will count for anything the argument being that you could have changed any or all of the tyres in the meantime. It's like getting an MOT the day after you've been stopped without one, it carries no weight.

I'm struggling to understand what's behind this though, if not through 'excessive speeding/dangerous driving/driving without due care and attention', how or why did your cousins car slide ?

Is seems that the policeman took it into his mind to have him for something but why is the question ?

Pete D
The statement form the garage would have to identify the tyre as the same make and size as the others on the car and the spare and of a similair age. Some coppers use a coloured crayon to mark the sidewall of the tyre. Did this one do such a thing. Pete D
slushpuppy
It is not down to the opinion of the police.
It either had sufficient tread or it didn't.
It should have have been accurately measured for depth and any defective area measured with a tape.
A record of the make, size and batch number should also have been recorded to identify it. Sometimes a photo is taken.
You should be able to challenge this in court (if it gets tha far) and ask what evidence was recorded at the time. As no details appear to have been recorded your evidence from the MOT station will then be useful.
southpaw82
QUOTE (Aether @ Sat, 20 Feb 2010 - 14:37) *
I am after a set of guidelines that must be followed any idea where i can find these?


No such general guidelines exist. The force in question may have it's own guidelines but then again it may not. At the end of the day, it is for the prosecution to prove that the tyre was defective using the officer's evidence.
Aether
QUOTE (Sangamoura @ Sat, 20 Feb 2010 - 16:12) *
I'm not convinvced your evidence from the garage will count for anything the argument being that you could have changed any or all of the tyres in the meantime. It's like getting an MOT the day after you've been stopped without one, it carries no weight.

I'm struggling to understand what's behind this though, if not through 'excessive speeding/dangerous driving/driving without due care and attention', how or why did your cousins car slide ?

Is seems that the policeman took it into his mind to have him for something but why is the question ?


There was a bit of ice on the road .. black ice .. he went over it and the car slid, didn't hit anyone or cause any damage and the copper saw it.
We are also struggling to understand what was behind this but the attitude of the copper was .. well i don't know how to describe it other than he was a w*****. My cousins who's house was a 10 second walk away offered to get a ruler a torch and to measure it properly but the coppper simply replied take the points or i will do you for dangerous driving instead.



QUOTE (Pete D @ Sat, 20 Feb 2010 - 16:26) *
The statement form the garage would have to identify the tyre as the same make and size as the others on the car and the spare and of a similair age. Some coppers use a coloured crayon to mark the sidewall of the tyre. Did this one do such a thing. Pete D


This one did no such thing, no crayons no tyre thread checker .. absolutely nothing.

QUOTE (slushpuppy @ Sat, 20 Feb 2010 - 18:06) *
It is not down to the opinion of the police.
It either had sufficient tread or it didn't.
It should have have been accurately measured for depth and any defective area measured with a tape.
A record of the make, size and batch number should also have been recorded to identify it. Sometimes a photo is taken.
You should be able to challenge this in court (if it gets tha far) and ask what evidence was recorded at the time. As no details appear to have been recorded your evidence from the MOT station will then be useful.


Nothing was accurately measured, no make model of the tyres, no batch number, no crayon absolutely nothing.


QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 20 Feb 2010 - 23:07) *
QUOTE (Aether @ Sat, 20 Feb 2010 - 14:37) *
I am after a set of guidelines that must be followed any idea where i can find these?


No such general guidelines exist. The force in question may have it's own guidelines but then again it may not. At the end of the day, it is for the prosecution to prove that the tyre was defective using the officer's evidence.


My cousin also told the copper that he was mid-way through his MOT training and he is fully aware of the legal limits of the tyre and how to measure it and challeneged the copper to measure it, the copper also took the p155 out of his car (japanese hot hatch) and my cousin told the copper the car had coilover suspension to which the copper replied "you don't know what coil over suspension is"

I wish i had been there ..
mick22
reguarding tyre law i prepare hgv s for mot and have a copy of the inspectorate manual the law states minimum tread depth 1.6 mm on cars vans 1.0 mm on hgv s now you can have just 3 quarters of the tread width of tread for it to still be legal tread damadge cuts tears can be a maximum of 25 mm across the width as long as no broken cords are exposed in the cut this doesnt aply with the cut running the whole lengh the trouble is the tre trouble is these coppers dont no the motoring law that they are trying to preach .
andy_foster
Is there any particular reason why your cousin cannot post here himself and tell us what actually happened, rather than giving us second hand hysterical nonsense?
Grant_W
QUOTE (Aether @ Sun, 21 Feb 2010 - 02:56) *
Nothing was accurately measured, no make model of the tyres, no batch number, no crayon absolutely nothing.



I wish i had been there ..


According to your cousin, like you said you weren't there and like us only have one side. wink.gif
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