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mc_nebula
Hi, I received a PCN I would like you guys to look at... I was parked on the road, London borough of Hillingdon.

The road has no restrictions and no lines. the notice is for blocking a dropped footway. It is in fact a driveway. The drop is wider than the driveway and I was in no way obstructing the drive.









Many thanks,

A.
Anorak
There is a flaw in the legislation that can be used in your defence so include the following paragraphs in your appeal;

“Council areas within Greater London that were awarded Special Parking Area status under section 76 of the Road Traffic Act 1991 are now considered, due to paragraph 1(5) of Schedule 10 within the TMA 2004, to be Special Enforcement Areas.

However, such council areas are not considered as Special Enforcement Areas where Statutory Instrument 2009/1116 is concerned. Paragraph 2(5) of S.I. 2009/1116 does not include paragraph 1(5) of Schedule 10 within the TMA 2004, in its definition of Special Enforcement Areas.

(5) In paragraph (4) a “special enforcement area” means an area designated as a special enforcement area by means of—
(a) an order made under paragraph 1(1) or 3(1) of Schedule 10 to the Traffic Management Act 2004 ; or
(b) an order which, by virtue of paragraph 2(5) or 3(5) of that Schedule, has effect as if it were an order so made."

Since S.I. 2009/1116 does not include those councils within Greater London that were granted Special Parking Area status under the 1991 Act, it means that those councils do not qualify as being exempt from having to place traffic signs for the purpose of providing information to road users as to the effect of section 85(double parking) or 86(dropped footways) of the Traffic Management Act 2004 in their area
.

As the prohibition was not signed and no exemption from placing traffic signs has been granted, I require you to cancel this penalty charge forthwith and to immediately cease enforcing the effects of sections 85 & 86 of the TMA 2004 until the appropriate signage is placed or an exemption is enacted by statute”.
mc_nebula
Ok, so, I would post off a letter (recorded delivery?) saying "I would like to appeal the PCN number ***** served on my vehicle reg ***** on the following grounds: <What you said>

Many thanks,

mc_nebula"

Sorry, I want to be sure about this. I'm a student, I can't afford the notice, it is my fathers car and he has kindly lent it to me for a week to move some uni project stuff around...

As I said, the street is unrestricted... there are signs at either end informing you that when you enter the street, you are leaving a parking zone thingy... there are no signs on lamp posts in the street and no road markings at all.

Many thanks,

A.
bama
you are in front of that dropped kerb - not good news.

use anorak's args.

recorded delivery often isn't - recorded that is .
especially when sent to large organisations.
when you have to prove it was delivered use Special Delivery.
and keep copies of everything !
mc_nebula
I know the dropped kerb isn't good... I wasn't actually blocking the drive so I thought it would be ok. The dropped kerb extends well beyond the drive in this instance.

If I appeal and it is rejected, and this takes more than 14 days, do I then have to pay the £100?

Thanks,

A.
bama
No it goes to the NTO stage. the price does go up.

but bear in mind that the council has to have regard to your informal appeal ad their response to it will probably sink them as the back office cut and paste johhnys won't have a clue. plus its good arg to take to adjudication IMO.
mc_nebula
When you say "it goes to the NTO stage. the price does go up"

you mean, that if I place the appeal (is this an informal appeal?) and it is rejected, I might end up paying the £100? What is an NTO?

Many thanks for the help so far. This is my first time with any of this and I'm not sure about the jargon and abbreviations.
mc_nebula
Thanks for your help.
Equalizer
That dropped footway is remarkably damaged. Almost unrecognisable as a dropped footway. In fact I've seen damaged kerbs that look more like a dropped footway!

Anorak's argument is best - but no harm in pointing out that this dropped kerb is damaged enough to show that, far from being "lowered to the carraigeway" the "dropped" part of the kerb doesn't even appear to be there! I wouldn't mind betting this may have been one of these "private" dropped kerbs that never got Highways permission (or planning permission where necessary!) and probably built by some passing tinkers!!
ManxRed
The 'kerb' is the thin flag between the pavement and the road. In that sense, there isn't even a kerb there, let alone a dropped one!
Neil B
Invalid PCN.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...=SKT+hillingdon
mc_nebula
Thanks for the input guys.

I sent off the challenge yesterday afternoon. If it is rejected, I will go to formal appeal on the other grounds as well.

Thanks,

A.
dave-o
Neil's point will be the big hitter if and when you go to formal.
mc_nebula
Just a HUGE thank you for the help I got for this. I got a letter on the 22nd canceling the penalty. This was due to "An error identified after the issue of the PCN." The letter I wrote was based on what Anorak said in post no. 2. I did not need to use the information Niel B gave me in post 12. However, a housemate has just got off on that same point, so, thanks for that too.

A.
quickboy
Well done, another council PCN bites the dust, with a litttle help from PPP! I bet you are feeling really pleased with yourself. And you will be glad you came here for good advice from the experts.
axeman
great stuff, well done to the forum experts
bama
Well done.

It is begining to look as though they all know about the signing issues - but are carrying issuing anyway.

A child of the famous TMA cock-up re no usable signage for dropped footways and double parking but they still enforced "The regulations for Dropped footways and double parking contain an oversight.
TMA does not include the exemption previously allowed for enforcement without
signage. They have left in place the legislation but this could be challenged by a
clever lawyer. Reference to Signage Department of the DfT is recommended.
Steps are being taken to correct this. (Take care about making this generally
available)"

Their emphasis.

They thought they had fixed it but Anorak bust 'em. Their secrecy attitude will not have changed - kerching !
ormy
QUOTE (bama @ Wed, 6 Jan 2010 - 00:47) *
(Take care about making this generally
available)"


Who wrote that and where can I complain?
bama
It is in the Minutes of a BPA meeting that some kind anonymous soul made available to me.

Marion Waldron (google her, a DfT parking big wig) was there. This was a meeting for LA's not PPCs.
The way I read the minutes MW could well have said it herself. I can't prove that but she was there so I would consider her a party to it. I bet she also got a copy of the minutes.


Minutes of London Regional Group Meeting,
LB Camden; St Pancras Town Hall
Thursday, 10 January 2008 at 10.00 am

I would post up the document IF the mods say its okay.

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