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stk1uk
I'm a taxi driver in Edinburgh and had customer on board going to the Grassmarket area of town. On route he asked to stop at a cash machine. The one in question is next to a zebra crossing. On a approach I noticed someone was going to cross. I came to to a stop while motioning them to cross over. I had pulled in a little bit but was not parked. As the person crossed the customer jumped out the car and went to the bank. I told him I would get him further up the street. As I was about to pull away about 4 cars overtook me and then Lothian and Borders finest pulled up on the opposite side of the road on the pedestrian crossing and asked me why I had stopped. I told them there was someone crossing and I had to stop and that the guy needed a bank. They lectured me for around 1 minute whilst I apologised. By this time the guy from the bank had jumped back in and we were about to continue the journey when they told me to park up the street where I was issued with a £60 ticket and 3points. I never park on zig zags but I had to stop as someone was crossing. The whole process from the guy going to the bank must have taken a minute tops. They spent longer lecturing me than guy had taken at the bank whilst sitting on the crossing themselves. I feel a little hard done by and any advice would be grateful
Kensington
Hi,

First of all as you are a taxi driver, I do not believe for one minute you 'never park on zig zags'. If you really don't then you are certainly in a minority in your profession! Anyway, joking aside; why did the police not prosecute the '4 cars which overtook you'? Zig zags also prohibit overtaking. It suggests to me that you were stationary for some time and by allowing your fare to get out of the car gave the impression that you had 'parked'. Did you pull over near to the kerb? The problem you have is that if you did and your passenger got out then you have in fact 'parked' thus committing the offence. Also, why did you give the officers the answer 'and that guy needed the bank'? Basically you have should of limited your response to 'someone was crossing and I was too slow in getting away' or something. I'm sorry but I don't think you have done yourself any favours here and I think you will struggle if you try and appeal it because the police may have captured it on video and they will have noted your response. My ONLY suggestion is that you ask your fare if he would be prepared to 'back you up' and be a witness for you. He would have to say that you did NOT give him permission to jump out where he did suggesting that you were not responsible for his actions. If he refuses or you can't trace him, then I would think very carefully about appealing because it may cost you more.
stk1uk
Thanks for the advice Kensington. I did pull in a little and it might have come across to the cars behind that I was parked although the vehicle was running. The point being someone was crossing so I couldn't move forward. The fact the police commited the same whilst lecturing me instead of moving me up the street to caution me beggars belief. Once they had cautioned me they ignoed another vehicle which was parked on the zig zags with the driver knowhere to be seen. There's no consistency with them. I have a court date in december and have the citation. Do you think I should plead guilty and challenge it ? Should I get a lawyer or go it alone? Should I write to the PF and explain my side of the story and see what transpires.
Kensington
Yes the police should of moved you (and themselves) to an appropiate and legal location. Apart from anything else you could actually issue a complaint under the circumstances. You can also add the fact that no action appeared to be taken action agianst the other car which was parked illegally. BUT i'm afraid you are still in a sticky situation unless you obtain support from your fare. As I said earlier, if you pulled close to the kerb with the intention of allowing the passenger to get out of the car on the zig zags, you have comitted the offence. No doubt you have the details of the police officers concerned and I do understand how frustrated you must be feeling 'singled out'. But you know you did wrong and unfortunately you got caught. In Wolverhampton there is a Shop Mobility shop andf it is right on a pelican crossing. as you know these shops are used mainly by elderley and the disabled and if there are no parking spaces available then the various taxis (including the Ring And Ride buses) drop off and pick up in the zig zags. As far as I am aware, the police appear to turn a blind eye there but there has been the odd one who do get booked. But where are you supposed to stop? You could argue either the shop is in the wrong place or the crossing.

In your case the police (and the other drivers who overtook you) saw you pull over giving the impression that you had 'parked' so the evidence against you looks bleak i'm afraid. You could of course get the advice from a lawyer (most will give you initial free consultation) but I reckon you should plead guilty and put the circumstances forward. Pleading not guilty will make it worse if you are found guilty.
henrik777
Did you indicate ? Did you say anything or did the passenger jump out without your knowledge ?

jobo
stopping with the intention of letting you passenger out it an offence

stopping to let someone cross and your passenger jumping out is not

Kensington
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 20:23) *
stopping with the intention of letting you passenger out it an offence

stopping to let someone cross and your passenger jumping out is not


Sorry jobob, the latter is wrong. You are only allowed to stop within the area of the zig-zags for the purpose of allowing pedestrains to cross. So dropping a passenger off could be considered as 'parking'. For a start, you would (or should) be sufficient distance away from the kerb to enable a passenger to leave the vehicle safely.
jobo
as a driver you have NO responsibility if you passenger gets out whilst you stop to let someone cross

do you have a statute which says you do ?????????????????????

if there was no one on the crossing you may have a problem

what offence do you think he should be charged wqith

having a stupid passenger
nemo
Circumstances beyond a driver's control is a defence to stopping within a zebra controlled area, as is the avoidance of injury or damage to persons or property.

The OP may well have a case if he is able to convince the court that the passenger was not 'dropped off', but rather exited the vehicle of his own accord whilst the pedestrian cleared the crossing.

The likelihood of that happening is liable to be largely dependent upon the police officers' interpretation (and statements) of events.

QUOTE (The Zebra @ Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997)
Prohibition against the stopping of vehicles on crossings

18. The driver of a vehicle shall not cause the vehicle or any part of it to stop within the limits of a crossing unless he is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.
jimster
Just out of interest



Don't the doors lock on taxis to prevent this very thing happening?

Passengers doing a runner at lights etc.

jobo
thats bl;ack cabs and they unlock as soon as its stationary

its to stop people falling out at speed

other wise its called kidnapping biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
jimster
Cheers jobo



I was under the impression that the driver had to press a button to release the door

Not much of a taxi user myself huh.gif



MartinHP71
QUOTE (stk1uk @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 11:51) *
On route he asked to stop at a cash machine. The one in question is next to a zebra crossing.....I had pulled in a little bit .....the customer jumped out the car and went to the bank. I told him I would get him further up the street.

By this time the guy from the bank had jumped back in


Stopping to let the passenger out on the Zig-Zags is the offence.
Kensington
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 21:33) *
as a driver you have NO responsibility if you passenger gets out whilst you stop to let someone cross

do you have a statute which says you do ?????????????????????

if there was no one on the crossing you may have a problem

what offence do you think he should be charged wqith

having a stupid passenger


jobo, the OP has admitted he said to the police 'the passenger needed the bank' and that he 'pulled over toward the kerb' which means he didn't just stop to allow someone to cross. Does that answer your question?
jobo
can you show me the bit where he told the police that he pulled over towards the kerb

cant find that bit ??????????????????????

can you tell me how saying a passenger who is on his way back from the bank, wanted the bank, is an admission he stopped on a Z crossing to let him out

its more a statement of the blindingly obvious
Pete D
There is extensive CCTV coverage of the Grassmarket. However the OP stated he pulled over slightly when he stopped at the crossing. Why did he do that, clearly as he knew the guy was going to get out. Add to this that 3 or 4 cars overtook him, and the police saw that, then I do not think there is a defence. The Edinburgh LA only keep footage ( Hard Drive ) for a max of 7 days. The OP would have to report an incident report and request the coverage at the local police station if he thinks that he can prove that he only stopped for a person crossing and moved off when the crossing was clear. Peter D
CuriousOrange
QUOTE (stk1uk @ Mon, 9 Nov 2009 - 19:29) *
I did pull in a little and it might have come across to the cars behind that I was parked although the vehicle was running.
How far would you say you were from the kerb?

Normally you have to pull pretty far over to make other vehicles think you're parking up.
Pete D
Is this a black cab with auto locks. The driver would have had to relase the locks to allow him out. That does not help the case. Pete D
Fredd
QUOTE (Pete D @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 09:44) *
Is this a black cab with auto locks. The driver would have had to relase the locks to allow him out. That does not help the case. Pete D

If it's a black cab and if it has automatic door locks then it makes no difference as they unlock automatically when the taxi stops - as has been pointed out earlier in this thread.
Kensington
QUOTE (jobo @ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 - 03:22) *
can you show me the bit where he told the police that he pulled over towards the kerb

cant find that bit ??????????????????????

can you tell me how saying a passenger who is on his way back from the bank, wanted the bank, is an admission he stopped on a Z crossing to let him out

its more a statement of the blindingly obvious


Sure, no problem, take a look at the OP Monday 9th 11.51hrs. He stated to the police 'the guy needed the bank' instead of saying 'the guy jumped out without my knowledge'. The police would have seen him pull over so whether or not he admitted it to them is irrelevant but he has admitted it on here. You and I know that this is comon practice with taxi drivers and the OP here has totally 'shot himself in the foot' by pulling over to the extent of allowing 3-4 cars to overtake him. Had he not been 'parked' do you not think it strange that the police didn't pull these cars for overtaking on a z crossing? By 'pulling over a little', he has deliberately assisted the passenger to get out of the taxi which clearly indicates he gave the passenger the permission to do so. Bang to rights i'm afraid!
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