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Ruari the Rooster
My Father in Law has been sent an NIP for allegedly jumping a Red Light. The Speed states he was doing 0 mph. Rather difficult to jump a red light if you are not moving. Is there anything he can do? Is this classed as inaccurate information? Please help
jobo
possibly

the offence is committed if there is any movement over the line after the red has shown

if he was over the line but stationary for the duration of the red, then no offence

write and ask for pictures to help id driver, not proof or evidence
these should cast some light on what has occured

CountryCousin
QUOTE (jobo @ Fri, 6 Nov 2009 - 17:39) *
the offence is committed if there is any movement over the line after the red has shown

if he was over the line but stationary for the duration of the red, then no offence


Given where the cameras are actually situated at most of these junctions and where they point at you would normally have to stop a long way over the line (like perhaps 10 or 15 feet or more over it) while they are active in order to be photographed. Also being photographed at 0mph suggests the vehicle was stopped at the time the camera triggers after the light has turned red. You shouldn't normally get a red light ticket for only being two or three feet over the white line at the stop light, even though no doubt technically this is an offence if a police patrol vehicle or policeman on foot saw you and wanted to be difficult.

The most likely scenario here would be one of heavy traffic and the light turning red when the car was stuck on the junction due to other traffic but I assume you haven't been sent a photo so far. So writing to them as soon as possible and asking for a photograph to help identify the driver but not using the words proof or evidence would be the best way ahead here.
nemo
QUOTE (CountryCousin @ Sat, 7 Nov 2009 - 13:08) *
Given where the cameras are actually situated at most of these junctions and where they point at you would normally have to stop a long way over the line (like perhaps 10 or 15 feet or more over it) while they are active in order to be photographed.

Incorrect.

The cameras are sited such that the vehicle, the stop line and the traffic lights will be captured within both of the images which are taken when the unit is triggered.

And as jobo [correctly] pointed out, the offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.

No offence is committed if the vehicle does not proceed beyond the stop line with the red light showing, nor is an offence committed if the vehicle proceeds across a junction with the red light showing, as long as the vehicle had completely passed the stop line before the light changed to red.

QUOTE (CountryCousin @ Sat, 7 Nov 2009 - 13:08) *
You shouldn't normally get a red light ticket for only being two or three feet over the white line at the stop light, even though no doubt technically this is an offence if a police patrol vehicle or policeman on foot saw you and wanted to be difficult.

See above.
2020Hindsight
The inductive strips in the road that trigger most red light cameras only work on movement, so it may have been that he was just coming to a final halt when the sensors went active. The strips also aren't very good at measuring speed so they can return odd figures.
The problem will be you won't be able to see the full evidence to determine the actual movement unless they plead not guilty if they get a conditional offer of penalty.
nemo
QUOTE (2020Hindsight @ Sat, 7 Nov 2009 - 14:26) *
The problem will be you won't be able to see the full evidence to determine the actual movement unless they plead not guilty if they get a conditional offer of penalty.

The 'evidence' will consist of a pair of photographs showing the stop line, the vehicle and the state of the lights at the time of the alleged offence.

I'm with jobo - whilst the SCP are under no obligation to comply, a polite letter which asks for 'copies of any photographs which might assist with identification of the driver' may see the release of these images which would allow the OP to determine whether the vehicle did indeed proceed beyond the stop line during the red phase.
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