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cream70
Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 21:46
Mate of mine has just recieved an NOR from Scambeth Council with patas forms.




His formal representation was as follows:
QUOTE
I am in receipt of the above Notice To Owner. Please be aware my vehicle was parked at that location for the purposes of loading/unloading (******** Court) and therefore legally parked.
I’ve attached the electronic run sheets and circled the delivery address for your records.

Cancel the PCN before the next appeal stage


Why the 'investigator' has disregarded the electronic runsheets which was attached to the formal representation,which is downloaded from
a hand held computer which the driver carries at all times, which has
the date,time, addresses of all the deliveries the driver has done that day,
plus the vehcle registration
details is beyond me.

I was not aware that the sole proof of delivery is a delivery note.
The irony of it, is my mate managed to
get the electronic delivery note from the office today.

Is the NOR valid?
Gan
Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 21:58
The driver has provided perfectly adequate evidence for the delivery and their insistence on a paper delivery note is absurd.

Confirm that it will be appealed to PATAS where the evidence of the delivery will be presented along with the letter stating their trivial reason for the rejection. Because of their clearly unreasonable behaviour there will be an application for expenses.

A couple of days before the hearing they will fold.
quickboy
Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 22:04
QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 21:58) *
Confirm that it will be appealed to PATAS where the evidence of the delivery will be presented along with the letter stating their trivial reason for the rejection.

Would do no harm to "beef up" a letter to the council telling them you are totally confident of a win at PATAS. That may be enough to make them wobble and roll over!
Gan
Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 22:11
QUOTE (quickboy @ Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 22:04) *
QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 21:58) *
Confirm that it will be appealed to PATAS where the evidence of the delivery will be presented along with the letter stating their trivial reason for the rejection.

Would do no harm to "beef up" a letter to the council telling them you are totally confident of a win at PATAS. That may be enough to make them wobble and roll over!

Agree and I think you can be.
cream70
Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 22:49
QUOTE (quickboy @ Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 22:04) *
QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 21:58) *
Confirm that it will be appealed to PATAS where the evidence of the delivery will be presented along with the letter stating their trivial reason for the rejection.

Would do no harm to "beef up" a letter to the council telling them you are totally confident of a win at PATAS. That may be enough to make them wobble and roll over!


I thought the conventional wisdom was, as soon as LA's like Scumbeth send you Patas forms,
then you deal strictly with Patas.
cream70
Tue, 3 Nov 2009 - 22:09
QUOTE
Therefore, before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date that this letter was served (the date it was delivered)

Are they correct to presume the date of service?
Glacier2
Tue, 3 Nov 2009 - 23:05
QUOTE (cream70 @ Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 23:49) *
QUOTE (quickboy @ Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 22:04) *
QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 2 Nov 2009 - 21:58) *
Confirm that it will be appealed to PATAS where the evidence of the delivery will be presented along with the letter stating their trivial reason for the rejection.

Would do no harm to "beef up" a letter to the council telling them you are totally confident of a win at PATAS. That may be enough to make them wobble and roll over!


I thought the conventional wisdom was, as soon as LA's like Scumbeth send you Patas forms,
then you deal strictly with Patas.

Precisely.
cream70
Wed, 2 Dec 2009 - 21:02
Update:
Scumbeth duly s**t their pants, nearly 3 weeks before the Patas appeal hearing.


Can my mate still claim costs?
Glacier2
Wed, 2 Dec 2009 - 21:26
It will be very difficult to get PATAS to hear a costs application.
cream70
Tue, 13 Apr 2010 - 20:44
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Wed, 2 Dec 2009 - 22:26) *
It will be very difficult to get PATAS to hear a costs application.


update:
Applied for costs early December.

QUOTE
The Head of The Parking and Traffic Appeals Service
PO Box 1010
Sutton
Surrey
SM1 4SW
3/12/2009

Dear Sir/Madam,

Application for Costs
Case number:**********
Penalty Charge Notice number: LH********
Date of Adjudicator’s decision:
Following the decision by Lambeth Council, not to contest my appeal
I now wish to apply to the Adjudicator for an Order for costs under Paragraph 13 of the Schedule to the Road User Charging (Enforcement and Adjudication) (London) Regulations 2001. I am making this application within 14 days of the date of the Adjudicator’s decision.
I consider that Lambeth Council acted frivolously,
Vexatiously, and wholly unreasonably in not accepting
My formal representation.
My formal representation explained why my vehicle was
At the location, and evidence in the form of an electronic
Runsheet to confirm this.
Yet the authority chose to either disregard or ignore this.
In fact their Rejection of my Representations gives the impression
That this was not even sent, yet I’ve have provided clear evidence
To the contrary.
Considering the time and effort it has taken me to contest
This appeal I’d say a sum of £120 is not unreasonable.
Yours faithfully

********


It's taken about 4 months for Patas to award costs:





He is still waiting for Scumbeth to pay up!




eddy556
Tue, 13 Apr 2010 - 20:56
Congrats for getting costs! I think you should follow it up with the council, noting down the time it takes you, you will add this to any court claim you may have to issue against them at the £9.25 an hour.
Glacier2
Tue, 13 Apr 2010 - 21:08
Well done. smile.gif
southpaw82
Wed, 14 Apr 2010 - 16:10
Super. Could you PM me the case number please?
cream70
Wed, 14 Apr 2010 - 17:16
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 14 Apr 2010 - 17:10) *
Super. Could you PM me the case number please?



Will do.
Bogsy
Wed, 14 Apr 2010 - 18:37
BRAVO!
dave-o
Thu, 15 Apr 2010 - 10:28
Very well done. I would like to reference this thread for people who ask about claiming costs after a council fold.
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