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Oscar21
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2009
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Lytham St Annes Way 30mph (N), Lytham (A div) Mobile
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Me or my car were not at that location, I was working in Irlam, Manchester at the time and my car was locked up outside my house.

I only have one key for the vehicle which I have owned and been the RK of for four years, this key was locked up inside my house, where I live by myself and I was at work with my only set of house keys. Car was outside when I left and still there when I got back.

on the day in question I have two purchase invoices for that day from the wholesalers (although no time on them - NIP time 09:09). I should also be on CCTV working on the premisis where I was all day. I also have a dated jobsheeet, met the customer and had an apprentice working with me.

So whats the best approach seen as there does'nt seem to be a tick box marked 'dont know what your on about mate'. I would of thought a short and to the point letter saying neither me or my car were at that location at the time would be the best way because if I ask for photos it might loook like I'm fishing to see if you can see me or not and then miraculously remembering I was there at the time.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:37:23 +0000
Gan
A brief letter setting out the bare minimum of facts.

At the time alleged I was the keeper and sole driver of the vehicle.
The vehicle was parked outside my house from x am until y pm and was not driven between those times.
It was not therefore present at the time and place alleged.

This only applies, of course, if you are certain that nobody else has a house key and could have driven the car.

If you give this reply they will ask for photographs of your car to compare.

If you are in doubt, ask for photographs to identify the driver.

The other possibility is that they simply have the date wrong. For this reason, don't make any contact until 14 days are up. This will prevent them sending a corrected NIP.

Whatever you do, make sure you reply just before the 28 days are up. If you write a letter, staple it to the form and make clear on the form that a letter is attached. Take copies and send by recorded delivery.
2020Hindsight
They have asked for the driver of the vehicle at the time in question, so you do need to reply stating that you were in charge of the vehicle at the time stated, but that the vehicle was not at the location stated.
It's probably a typo in the form.

It doesn't hurt to ask for pics to help identify the driver - if they are a completely different vehicle you can helpfully mention that in the letter.
Oscar21
I see where you're coming from but at the time there was no driver so it would be impossible to name one. Its not a technicallity or something like that, its not a place, or indeed County that I have been to in a long while.
Oscar21
Nothing to do with my problem but just noticed at the foot of the NIP is a stamp and original ink signature, the stamp says 'I hereby certify that this document has been sent by 1st class post on **/**/**'

How is it in any way possible to certify the document has been sent when he/she has to sign the letter before actually putting it in an envelope and posting it. SCP's are just full of untruths.
C.T.C
Because the person who signs it then puts it through the franking machine for first class, then it goes in the post bag.
Gan
I think I understand what you mean Oscar and I agree that the RTA makes the distinction between driving and "in charge of".

The OP could quite correctly state that "nobody was driving" but he's also required to show that he has used due diligence if unable to name the driver.

Declaring that the keys were locked away and the car didn't move from outside the house is the minimum that he needs to fulfil that requirement.
andy_foster
QUOTE (Gan @ Tue, 27 Oct 2009 - 19:35) *
The OP could quite correctly state that "nobody was driving" but he's also required to show that he has used due diligence if unable to name the driver.


Bollox.

If the OP's vehicle was not involved in the alleged offence, he was not the person keeping the vehicle that was.


@Oscar21,

The possible reasons for the 'discrepancy' are-

your recollection is defective,
some ****** is driving around with a clone of your plates,
the shaved chimps in the CTO misread the VRM, or
the shaved chimps misread the time/date - or programmed the worng time/date into the camera - and it was you and your car but at a different time/date.

If there is a possibility that it was you and your car but at the wrong time/date, you should be aware that they might be able to issue a corrected NIP within 14 days of the date of the alleged offence (whenever that was). Is this somewhere that you might conceivably have been driving/speeding in the last couple of weeks?

If this is not a possibility, the next issue is whether some ****** has cloned your plates, or whether the shaved chimps at the CTO should have gone to specsavers.
If your plate has been cloned, you probably want to report it to the real police, have a marker placed on the ANPR and get the DVLA to issue a new VRM (so that you don't get pulled every 5 minutes, and so that the cloned plates do not cause you grief ).
However, if your plate has not been cloned, you don't want to go through all that hassle unnecessarily.

Gan
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 27 Oct 2009 - 21:26) *
QUOTE (Gan @ Tue, 27 Oct 2009 - 19:35) *
The OP could quite correctly state that "nobody was driving" but he's also required to show that he has used due diligence if unable to name the driver.


Bollox.

If the OP's vehicle was not involved in the alleged offence, he was not the person keeping the vehicle that was.


@Oscar21,

The possible reasons for the 'discrepancy' are-

your recollection is defective,
some ****** is driving around with a clone of your plates,
the shaved chimps in the CTO misread the VRM, or
the shaved chimps misread the time/date - or programmed the worng time/date into the camera - and it was you and your car but at a different time/date.

If there is a possibility that it was you and your car but at the wrong time/date, you should be aware that they might be able to issue a corrected NIP within 14 days of the date of the alleged offence (whenever that was). Is this somewhere that you might conceivably have been driving/speeding in the last couple of weeks?

If this is not a possibility, the next issue is whether some ****** has cloned your plates, or whether the shaved chimps at the CTO should have gone to specsavers.
If your plate has been cloned, you probably want to report it to the real police, have a marker placed on the ANPR and get the DVLA to issue a new VRM (so that you don't get pulled every 5 minutes, and so that the cloned plates do not cause you grief ).
However, if your plate has not been cloned, you don't want to go through all that hassle unnecessarily.




So is the correct reply a blunt "The vehicle was not at the location and I'm unable to assist you further" ?
bama
Post #2 nailed it IMV

especially as you do not know for certain that some **** hasn't got access to your keys and car.
davepoth
One thing though. Make sure to leave it until 15 days after the date of the NIP, just in case they made a mistake on the NIP and you did get pinged, just at a different time or date. That way the scammers will have no chance to reissue you a new NIP for the alleged offence.

I say 15 days after the date of the NIP because it's feasible that the offence took place on the day before the NIP was issued.
Oscar21
About to send of my reply, does this look ok.

Lancashire Constabulary
Central Process Unit
PO Box 273
Blackburn
BB1 2XA

09 November 2009

Your Ref : *************

Driving Licence Number : ***************

Date of Birth : ***********

Registration number : *******

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter and S172 request dated **/10/2009. However I am unable to do as requested and complete your form stating who the driver was at the time and date in question, as to the best of my knowledge my vehicle stated above did not have a driver.

The information provided is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Yours Faithfully



****************
Gan
I would remove "to the best of my knowledge" because it raises an element of doubt and add "and it was not at the location".

As the vehicle was not being driven I would also remove your date of birth and driving licence details.
andy_foster
I assume that you intend to wind the scammers up?

If you want to deal with the s. 172 by letter and with the minimum of fuss, read post #2 again. Your letter seems deliberately evasive.

I still think that you should attempt to ascertain the cause of this allegation before putting pen to paper.
Oscar21
I do indeed want to wind the scammers up, I wanted to not give too much away, and I dont mind a few hours in Lancaster to do it. Odds on its a miss read of the registration on the photos and it would be fun in court to take a look at the photo/video and say "thats not my vehicle, I did you "

If I send a letter spelling everything out for them I fear it will be over all too quickly.

However I take note about removing liscence and DOB details, as it was impossible it was my car, never ever been to that area, working 60 miles away all week at the time. Also my problem is the S172 only asks who the driver was, it does not ask for the keeper at the time, there was no driver, it was motionless outside my house.

Could someone draft a more suitable letter up for me then, without giving the game away from the start, I dont get much fun.
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