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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] 21 months in, 3pts already, done by a roadside van - help!!!
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
bazzlad
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2009
Date of the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A460 Hednesford between Hill Top and Eastern Way
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Was driving at 7:51am, up the hill, drove around the corner and the van was there. Seriously don't think I was doing 40 mph like it says, but was definitely speeding.

------------------------------------------

Need advice, this will be loss of license, job and perhaps even house. Need to know my options!


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:29:27 +0100

Want to add here that I am willing to go to court and defend myself - what is the likely outcome(s), is it an open and shut case? I don't mind paying a bigger fine if it means keeping my licence a little longer, but if there's a zero percent chance of leniency, I guess I shouldn't bother.
desktop_demon
Well for starters the NIP usually comes with a s.172 request to identify the driver. You must respond to that request within 28 days or you will commit a further offence of not supplying the information (6pts +fine). You need not respond immediately - so you may (for example) send the s.172 response form back on day 25. Use recorded or special post delivery - to prove you posted it back.

In the meanwhile you may write to the camera/ticket office and ask for any photos that may help identify the driver and the exact location. Keep it simple (2 sentences) and do not ask for "evidence" or "proof", just pictures to help.... The ticket office may send you back some photos - or they may not. If you get the photos then you can see the nature of the evidence against you. if you wish you can scan, "wash" and post them up here for members to advise. Maybe there is a problem with the evidence but maybe not. Either way you will be able to better understand what you are facing and make a more informed plea, etc. I presume they allege a 40mph offence on a 30mph road?
bazzlad
Yeah, it's 40 in a 30, I know I was speeding, I have no arguments about that, but the speed is wrong, I KNOW that. (Not that it matters, but it seriously lowers my chances of being offered a speeding awareness course).

I just can't afford to lose my licence. Had my first 3 pts last September, and now I was only 4 months away from being a proper driver (with 12 pts).

I've spoked to a solicitor who says they win 75% of cases, but it'll cost £1000 - £3500, I just don't have that sort of cash.
Hotel Oscar 87
The difficulty you have is that you agree that you were speeding. The offence is commited when exceeding the limit and the margin by which is, largely, irrelevant other than in terms of guiding a court as to sentence. Sadly, as far as sentencing is concerned - if you were to take the matter through to court, the magistrates have no discretion as to imposing penalty points they must endorse. If you want to try to avoid points no matter what then you would seem to have little option but to fight the case. If you choose this option then you will need to prepare yourself well and it will not be an easy matter.

As an alternative, have you fully thought through whether, in the short term you would be able to cope without being able to drive unaccompanied? If you were to accept the inevitable fixed penalty and then have your licence revoked you can immediately reapply for a provisional licence and are then only limited as to how soon you can return to the road (unaccompanied) by the speed with which you can retake and pass the theory and practical tests.
flumpy7
Hi might be wrong but i was under the impression that if you go to court, officially they have discretion to give some other form of punishment than 3 points to avoid losing your license. For example, with good mitigation you may be able to convince them to offer you a short ban instead, meaning you dont lose your license completely and have to retake your test. Of course, they certainly dont HAVE to do this, and probably wont. However, its got to be preferable to just accepting a fixed penalty which will mean definite revocation of your license.

Its also worth noting that very occasionally the police are actually sympathetic. I was once in a very similar situation (caught doing 36 in a 30, already had 3 points, only 1 year in) and i was so gutted i wrote to the local head of traffic police and said im very sorry but it would be very unfair for me to lose my license for 6mph, and they wrote back and said the decision to prosecute had been completely reversed as not in public interest. I couldnt believe it!

Having said all this, both options are long shots, and if after careful investigation you can legally challenge the charge then go for that as the odds are against you. I feel sorry for you, i dont condone speeding, but for the sake of a few mph it seems very harsh to lose your license.
bazzlad
Thanks for the advice people,

So it's not possible for me to go to court, plead guilty and appeal for leniency?

I stand to lose everything, surely the judge has the option to allow me to keep my licence?
Hotel Oscar 87
QUOTE (bazzlad @ Sun, 4 Oct 2009 - 13:52) *
Thanks for the advice people,

So it's not possible for me to go to court, plead guilty and appeal for leniency?

I stand to lose everything, surely the judge has the option to allow me to keep my licence?

The sentence for speeding incorporates an obligatory endorsement and from that point of view the court can exercise no discretion. Any additional aspect of the "sentence" - fine, costs etc - is discretionary up to the statutory limit. At the speed alleged your case falls into the lowest bracket to which 3 points and a fine would normally be applied. Had the speed been higher (41mph and above) then it would have been open to the court to impose a short-term ban of between 7 and 28 days or points. In that eventuality, clearly, if would have been preferable to push for the ban rather than the points but even then the courts are well aware of the effect of their imposing points on young drivers and are discouraged from wavering from the official line.

From the point of view of the revocation of your licence this is something (setting aside the sentence a magistrate may impose that may trigger it) the courts have no control over. The revocation of a licence is an administrative process carried out by the DVLA on behalf of the Secretary of State which would be triggered by them being notified by a court that you have incurred penalty points, discovering you've overtopped the 6 permitted as a new driver and that, sadly, is that.
bazzlad
I'm gutted!
I'll have to have a sit down meeting at work on Monday and pray that I can keep my job. So I suppose I'll fill in the form and send the money on the 25th day and wait for the bad news.
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