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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Barnage
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2009
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A44 New Rd towards Malvern (G), CA07 Worcester Bedwardine
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - 36 in a 30. I just know that that this road and area is notorious so I am always very conscious along this bit of road. I actually remember vividly checking my speedometer on that day and made very sure I did not go above 30mph. There were cars in front and behind. I am able to admit when I am in the wrong, but I strongly feel this apparent speed is inaccurate. No pictures with NIP

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:28:15 +0100
Hotel Oscar 87
At the speed alleged you are likely to receive a conditional offer of fixed penalty (i.e. £60 and 3 points). West Mercia are planning a Speed Awareness Course but would seem not to have implemented it as this stage. If it was available you would have had to pay for it (usually a fee adjacent to the fixed penalty fine) but there are no points to attached attending one.

Your being offered the fixed penalty will be dependant upon your replying to the NIP within the 28 days stipulated.
Barnage
I have got the option of attending the course and I will go down this route. It's just I am 99% sure I did not drive 36mph. I remember looking about 5 times at my speedo on that day, at the time of alleged offence on that particular stretch of road. That's whats got me puzzled? Are these cameras accurate, is there an error margin. It was bright sunshine that day I remember it well.
Barnage


Pete D
If this was a Gatso both shots will be from the rear. Why do you mention the front.
http://www.abd.org.uk/gatso_photo_checking.htm
Spacing is 5ft or 2 metres 3.2808 ft
Pete D


Barnage
BaggieBoy
Use the same point of the vehicle when trying to determine the number of markers traveled between shots, trying to use different points would make it very hard to work out.

QUOTE (Pete D @ Sun, 4 Oct 2009 - 20:01) *
Spacing is 5ft or 2 metres 3.2808 ft

Although we did have one case recently where the makers were 3 feet apart...
andy_foster
You've started a duplicate thread!
Barnage


Barnage
OK, based on 5 ft and passing 4 of the white markers I have worked out; 4 x 5ft x 0.6818 / 0.5 = 27.27 mph. So why does NIP state 36??
BaggieBoy
Do you know that the marks are 5 feet apart for sure?

If they were 2 metres apart that would be very close to 36 MPH.
Barnage


BaggieBoy
The quality of the pics is terrible, I couldn't determine anything from them.
andy_foster
Looks like about 4 lines to me.
BTW, a 2002 VW Polo hatchback is 3897 mm long - not far off 4 m.
Barnage
Oh the shaaaame if they are 2 metres icon_redface.gif . Nortee
glasgow_bhoy
Just go n measure them!
Pete D
I recall a case on here some time ago at that location but can not find it but the OP went and measured them at they were 2M spacing. There was even a guy on a push bike in the shot. Regards Peter
Hotel Oscar 87
Whilst Google Maps is hardly the best yardstick there are sufficient markings visible between the trees to be able to make a "best guess" as to spacing. Insufficient markings fall into the 50' scale for it to be 5' but using the 20m scale its virtually bang on 5 spaces/6 markings in 10m. This would seem to suggest the spacing is at 2m.
desktop_demon
Wow that gatso installation is certainly on a curved road. I bet the radius of curvature on that road is not 1200m!

The scans posted up are rather difficult to make out properly. Is it possible for the Op to post up some more detailed scans or at higher resolution. The distance travelled does seem close to four gaps (8m in 0.5seconds) but it is difficult to see precisely on the pictures supplied.
mugtree
As I suggested in a post which has been moved to another thread rolleyes.gif I went past that site today. Actually pulled off the road in the middle of the markings to measure them for you - didn't have a tape measure, so not that accurate, using a couple of long poles I had in the car and some sticky tape along with a 1m rule when I got home. Made the distance about 1.9m, which given said accuracy probably means they're 2m apart (even standing by the side of the road looking at them closely they seem far closer than that to the naked eye!) Very definitely more than 5ft, given my measuring pole is 5'2" long and was nowhere near spanning the gap. Sorry for the bad news - I'm guessing from the evidence available that means they have a case (not that surprised given I've driven past there hundreds of times at ~30mph and never been flashed or seen anybody else flashed, which would suggest they don't get you if you're not speeding).

Any chance of telling me how you got those photos, given I've written to West Mercia asking for some for my case and had no reply. Did you write and ask for them, and if so, what did you write?

p.s. Whilst the road looks curved in the shot, the bit the gatso is on seems pretty straight (I was actually quite surprised how curved the road looks in the photo, given I'd always thought it was fairly straight - for reference, http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=38447...p;A=Y&Z=115 is just about where I pulled off the road in the middle of the markings).
Barnage


Barnage


Pete D
ASk her to go and measure them. I have told you, and somelse that they are 2m so the radar detected speed and the photo's support this. Whilst you show the photo you make no mention of whatrthe vehicle is or it's wheel base, if you had checked that you would not be questioning the spacing. Pete D
Barnage
I'll measure it and let everyone know. Not sure what you mean by 'wheel base' and all of that. My car is a VW polo 01.
Hotel Oscar 87
QUOTE (Barnage @ Thu, 8 Oct 2009 - 21:05) *
Not sure what you mean by 'wheel base' and all of that.

Wheelbase is the horizontal distance from the centre of the front wheel to centre of the rear wheel. According to VW the wb = 2460mm
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