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zippo
I recently tripped a red light camera on a crossing going at 16 miles per hour. No accident or incident arose from the violation and I had no recollection of it at all. However the photo was clealry of my car and I filled in all the forms confirming that I was driving and that I had committed the offense. This was my first driving offense in over 20 years driving. I was not offered any fixed penalty deal and have just had notifcation from the court of a fine plus costs totalling £530. Is this normal asf rom posts on websites I had expected a fine of circa £60 ? Also the notification of fine fromthe court makes no mention of penalty points. How does one get notification of these ? Thanks
andy_foster
There is a stage missing from your tale - the summons and plea. Did you receive a summons?

Fixed penalties are often offered for red light offences, except when they are deemed to be too serious - usually based on how long the lights had been red.

The endorsement for red light offences is 3 points (endorsement code TS10) or a ban. You would not be banned in your absence unless you had ignored a court order requiring you to attend for sentencing.
Pete D
You say crossing, do you mean a railway crossing. A normal traffic light junction red light violation is 3 points and £60 via a conditional offer of fixed penalty. Have you not recieved a summons or other form of communication from the courts. It appears you have been prosecuted in your absence. Are they requesting your fine to be paid and to supply your driving licence. I note you say recently, when exactly did this happen. Pete D
zippo
Thanks for responses. To clarify it was a normal pdestrien crossing not a railway crossing or at a road junction [the sort you push a button and the lights turn to let people cross]. The info with the photo said that the photo had been taken 1 second after turned red and my car was circa half way across the line at that point. The photo showed that there were no people on the crossing at all although there were some people crosing the road several metres to one side of the crossing who had clearly started to cross whilst light was on green as they were virtually at the pavement at the point when picture was taken. This happened in late July 2009. I got a summons through post and no other communication [e.g. nothing about fixed penalty option] and was told that if I pleaded guilty I need not attend . I was clearly guilty and confirmed that on paperwork and as it seemed like a minor offense I did not attend in person. The court issued the fine notice described as 'Notice of fine and collection order' for £531 which includes £85 costs on 27th August which I received by post today 5th Sept and have until next wendesday 10th to pay. There is no mention at all of any penlaty points on it nor indeed any indication of why the fine was set at this level. The only other point to note is that because I was on holiday abroad for 15 days in USA immediatly before the schedlued date and needing my license to hire a car I informed the court of this in writing and confirmed that I would be able to send my license to them immediatley on return from USA if they requested it, which they have not. My major concern now is not so much the payment of the fine [although it seems absurdly steep] but whether this indicates they think it was serious and hence will incurr more than 3 penalty points.
jobo
i f it was a red light charge as opposed to careless then its just three points, the fine is about right dependant on your income ?

your problem now is you havent surrendered your license for points, which your required to do when you guilty plea/ if your not attending, they may write to you pointing this out or they may just suspend your license with out further notice

such as suspension would still allow you to drive for 12 months, however if you get pulled youl get all sorts of hassle from the police

get in touch with them, NOW
zippo
Thanks, advice re writing to court re driving license is good and I will do so even though I have already informed them in writing on the summons form returned prior to hearing of reason my driving license not sent to them. The notice of fine and collection states 'failure to stop at a red light at a Pelican/puffin'. There is no mention of careless driving or any reference to the driving license and equally no notification of any penalty points. I feel very anxious about all this and am now wishing i had attended court so that I would know exaclty what position was !
Pete D
Write today, ring on Monday before this gets out of hand. Pete D
Lynnzer
Also consider an appeal. I must confess that it may not be possible though based on the fact that you had made a guilty plea, although I think you can appeal against the sentence at least.
It's a shame you didn't get on here first off.
Did you even get a S172 form to fill in the driver details or was it just a formality that they sent out a summons?
I guess it doesn't matter all that much now since you made a guilty plea but it would fill in any gaps.
zippo
Thanks for all help, I have already drafted letter to the court and will enclose with it a copy of the plea form I filled in in response to their summons in which clearly stated why I could not forward my license in August and asks the court to alert me to whether I should send it in on my return from the USA. Lynnzer I did get a form requiring me to fill in driver details which I did an next thing I got was a court summons. I pleaded guilty by post in response to court summons, because from the photo it was clear I was guilty. As it was a relatively minor offense and I had no previous points on my license I had wrongly assumed I would be offered a fixed penalty or a 'retraining' session but at no stage was this offered.
andy_foster
Fixed penalties and training courses (when they are offered) are offered by the police as an alternative to being summoned to court.
2020Hindsight
If there were people in the photo on the crossing that would be most likely why you didn't get an offer of the standard 3 points and £60, as that would have been regarded as an aggravating factor.
Did the court paperwork ask for details of your income?
The fine based is based on your income or if you haven't furnished any they choose an upper limit - which is what your fine sounds a bit like.
zippo
Hii all, the people in the photo were not on the 'official pedestrian' crossing at all they were very v. clearly crossing the road on an unmarked part of the main road, some metres beyond the official marked crossing crossing in two different places, and they were walking semi-diaonaally across a yellow marked box junction in front of a trun into a hospital entrance. In fact, although I cannot recall the events at all, I suspect from the photo that watching their passage across a main road might be what distracted me from the traffic lights moving through amber to red. I did not refer to the fact they were not on official crossing in any part of my plea submisssion as it was, I thought, so entirely obvious and therefore I did not imagine this could reasonably be considered as an aggrevating factor that might need addressing in level of fine. They were patently nEIUTHER he lane I wI do have a high income whcih I obviously recorded truthfully on plea form. My main concern is not fine in itself however but is the total lack of info re penalty points on the notification from the court and the uncertainty and anxiety this is causing me. How and when is one normally informed by the court of a penalty point aspect of the case ?

Sorry last post got garbled in the system I meant to write :-
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Hii all, the people in the photo were not on the 'official pedestrian' crossing at all they were very v. clearly crossing the road on an unmarked part of the main road, some metres beyond the official marked crossing crossing in two different places, and they were walking semi-diagonaly across a yellow marked box junction in front of a turn into a hospital entrance. In fact, although I cannot recall the events at all, I suspect from the photo that watching their somewhat perilous passage across a main road might be what momentarily distracted me from the traffic lights moving through amber to red. I did not refer to the fact they were present and not on official crossing in any part of my plea submisssion as it was, I thought, so entirely obvious and therefore I did not imagine this could reasonably be considered as an aggrevating factor that might need addressing in level of fine. They were patently neither on the crossing nor on the lane I where i was heading. i do have a high income whcih I obviously recorded truthfully on plea form. My main concern is not fine in itself however but the fact that it might be indicative of a more serious offense than I believe I commited and the associasted total lack of info re penalty points on the fine notification from the court. the uncertainty and anxiety this is causing me is immense. How and when is one normally informed by the court of a penalty point aspect of the case ?



jobo
How and when is one normally informed by the court of a penalty point aspect of the case ?



when they send your license back with three points written on it
zippo
Does anyone know if it is possible to recive a copy of the details of the court judgement or other details of their assessment ? I am still totally mystified as to why this was considered to require such a fine as opposed to a £60 fixed penalty. In meantime I have posted off a letter to the Justice clerk re the availability of the driving license and also emailed it to the court help desk.
southpaw82
A good guess would be that the time into red was too high for a fixed penalty. You can write to the court asking for the court's reasons but I'm not sure what you intend to gain from this. You're not going to get a fixed penalty.
V70owner
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 6 Sep 2009 - 20:55) *
A good guess would be that the time into red was too high for a fixed penalty. You can write to the court asking for the court's reasons but I'm not sure what you intend to gain from this. You're not going to get a fixed penalty.


QUOTE (zippo)
The info with the photo said that the photo had been taken 1 second after turned red and my car was circa half way across the line at that point.


Pitty you didn't find this site sooner. The advice from the regulars here seems to be excellent. From the info here it seems you were dealt with harshly, but also worryingly you don't seem to know why. I too would write and ask. You may not get the fixed penalty but it would be nice to understand why it wasn't offered to you.
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