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Full Version: PCN on dipped curb, no signs or road markings HELP PLEASE
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dexs
Hello,

I am new to these forums and need advice for a ticket that i received this morning.

I park in next to a set of flats where i live there are no parking restrictions at all in this area. i have been living here for over 5 years and have never seen a perking enforcement officer nor a car with a ticket attached to it.

This morning when when going to my car i found a ticket dated for 28/08/09 at 01:47 in the morning. The description is as follows:

Contravention: 27 parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a dropped footway . The images of the ticket has been uploaded.

What boggles my mind is that there are no road markings, road signs or any indication that the area or location where i parked has a restriction.
Driving home i looked at all the dropped cerbs i could find and every single one wither had a single yellow line on or a double yellow line on. Images of the pared area are also uploaded.

Could someone please let me know if there is any way i could fight this as i feel that i am being unfairly treated.

Thank you all for your time and effort in advance.

Kind regards

Dexs.








Teufel
several threads on this - search

no signs are needed

it would appear to be a contravention from the info given
dexs
Thanks for the reply

sorry for sounding dumb but what do you mean by "it would appear to be a contravention from the info given"?
clark_kent
QUOTE (dexs @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:41) *
Thanks for the reply

sorry for sounding dumb but what do you mean by "it would appear to be a contravention from the info given"?


Looking at the PCN and the photos it looks like you are parked across a drop kerb which is prohibited.
dexs
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:52) *
QUOTE (dexs @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:41) *
Thanks for the reply

sorry for sounding dumb but what do you mean by "it would appear to be a contravention from the info given"?


Looking at the PCN and the photos it looks like you are parked across a drop kerb which is prohibited.


that was the case however there are no signs or anything to say that parking was prohibited here as you can see from the pictures.
clark_kent
QUOTE (dexs @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:56) *
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:52) *
QUOTE (dexs @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:41) *
Thanks for the reply

sorry for sounding dumb but what do you mean by "it would appear to be a contravention from the info given"?


Looking at the PCN and the photos it looks like you are parked across a drop kerb which is prohibited.


that was the case however there are no signs or anything to say that parking was prohibited here as you can see from the pictures.


No signs are needed since you are not meant to park adjacent to any drop kerb so it would be pointless putting signs on every single drop kerb just to remind you.
dexs
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 22:20) *
QUOTE (dexs @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:56) *
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:52) *
QUOTE (dexs @ Fri, 28 Aug 2009 - 21:41) *
Thanks for the reply

sorry for sounding dumb but what do you mean by "it would appear to be a contravention from the info given"?


Looking at the PCN and the photos it looks like you are parked across a drop kerb which is prohibited.


that was the case however there are no signs or anything to say that parking was prohibited here as you can see from the pictures.


No signs are needed since you are not meant to park adjacent to any drop kerb so it would be pointless putting signs on every single drop kerb just to remind you.


Ok thank you for the information. So putting it bluntly i havent a foot to stand on and it would be pointless to try fight the ticket?
ford poplar
Worth checking that bit of road is in a special enforcement area.
Neil B
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 02:19) *
Worth checking that bit of road is in a special enforcement area.

ALL of London isn't it?

----------------

Ok, so DK is for pedestrian access it appears. Is there a corresponding one on the other sie of the road? 


dexs
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 02:38) *
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 02:19) *
Worth checking that bit of road is in a special enforcement area.

ALL of London isn't it?

----------------

Ok, so DK is for pedestrian access it appears. Is there a corresponding one on the other sie of the road?





the other side of the road has a dipped curb but its for access to the garage of the house as seen in the picture.
ford poplar
Neil B, was reading on Pepipoo earlier of a successful dropped kerb appeal because the Council had not proved the DK was within a SEA
DK opposite is also resident access to a double garage on driveway
Also strong govt advice that DKs should be highlighted with single solid white line in gutter to indicate which old DKs are still active, as not ALL DKs should be enforceable due to changes in road and/or building layout
dexs
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 03:07) *
Neil B, was reading on Pepipoo earlier of a successful dropped kerb appeal because the Council had not proved the DK was within a SEA
DK opposite is also resident access to a double garage on driveway
Also strong govt advice that DKs should be highlighted with single solid white line in gutter to indicate which old DKs are still active, as not ALL DKs should be enforceable due to changes in road and/or building layout


That is very interesting. I am going to look further into this as it does make sense in my mind that an indication should be used.
dexs
QUOTE (dexs @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 07:05) *
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 03:07) *
Neil B, was reading on Pepipoo earlier of a successful dropped kerb appeal because the Council had not proved the DK was within a SEA
DK opposite is also resident access to a double garage on driveway
Also strong govt advice that DKs should be highlighted with single solid white line in gutter to indicate which old DKs are still active, as not ALL DKs should be enforceable due to changes in road and/or building layout


That is very interesting. I am going to look further into this as it does make sense in my mind that an indication should be used.


Hello,

I have been scouring different cases and they all seem similar in ways however i can only see that i might be able to fight this if i mention that there are no road markings to designate this as a controlled dropped kerb area. also am i correct in understanding that if i am loading or unloading and that the vehicle has been there for no longer than 20 mins that i can say i was indeed unloading the car.

the enforcement officer was there from 1:43 am and the ticket was issues at 1:47 so he or she was there for 4 mins before issuing the ticket.

Also if i appeal this within 14 days and they deny this does it mean that i still only have to pay for the reduced amount or would i have the pay the full mount?
clark_kent
QUOTE (dexs @ Fri, 4 Sep 2009 - 10:59) *
QUOTE (dexs @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 07:05) *
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 03:07) *
Neil B, was reading on Pepipoo earlier of a successful dropped kerb appeal because the Council had not proved the DK was within a SEA
DK opposite is also resident access to a double garage on driveway
Also strong govt advice that DKs should be highlighted with single solid white line in gutter to indicate which old DKs are still active, as not ALL DKs should be enforceable due to changes in road and/or building layout


That is very interesting. I am going to look further into this as it does make sense in my mind that an indication should be used.


Hello,

I have been scouring different cases and they all seem similar in ways however i can only see that i might be able to fight this if i mention that there are no road markings to designate this as a controlled dropped kerb area. also am i correct in understanding that if i am loading or unloading and that the vehicle has been there for no longer than 20 mins that i can say i was indeed unloading the car.

the enforcement officer was there from 1:43 am and the ticket was issues at 1:47 so he or she was there for 4 mins before issuing the ticket.

Also if i appeal this within 14 days and they deny this does it mean that i still only have to pay for the reduced amount or would i have the pay the full mount?


The is no such thing as 'a controlled drop kerb area' and no signage is required. If you were loading your car at 1.40 in the morning that is a valid ground for appeal but lying (in case you were not loading) is a criminal offence.
dexs
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Fri, 4 Sep 2009 - 11:26) *
QUOTE (dexs @ Fri, 4 Sep 2009 - 10:59) *
QUOTE (dexs @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 07:05) *
QUOTE (ford poplar @ Sat, 29 Aug 2009 - 03:07) *
Neil B, was reading on Pepipoo earlier of a successful dropped kerb appeal because the Council had not proved the DK was within a SEA
DK opposite is also resident access to a double garage on driveway
Also strong govt advice that DKs should be highlighted with single solid white line in gutter to indicate which old DKs are still active, as not ALL DKs should be enforceable due to changes in road and/or building layout


That is very interesting. I am going to look further into this as it does make sense in my mind that an indication should be used.


Hello,

I have been scouring different cases and they all seem similar in ways however i can only see that i might be able to fight this if i mention that there are no road markings to designate this as a controlled dropped kerb area. also am i correct in understanding that if i am loading or unloading and that the vehicle has been there for no longer than 20 mins that i can say i was indeed unloading the car.

the enforcement officer was there from 1:43 am and the ticket was issues at 1:47 so he or she was there for 4 mins before issuing the ticket.

Also if i appeal this within 14 days and they deny this does it mean that i still only have to pay for the reduced amount or would i have the pay the full mount?


The is no such thing as 'a controlled drop kerb area' and no signage is required. If you were loading your car at 1.40 in the morning that is a valid ground for appeal but lying (in case you were not loading) is a criminal offence.



LOL ok i came on here for advice on how i can go about fighting this as i was told that you guys are a great help.

Where does lying come into it? have you never heard of a midnight removal. smile.gif

The term "no signage is required" doesnt make sense to me. does that mean that no sign is needed to state that you cant park here?

anyway it seems that ealing council is trying to shaft me to why not just give in and pay!

it just makes me wonder, i have been here for over 5 years and i have never seen a warden or anyone getting a parking ticket here. even though on a daily basis there is a car parked in exactly the same location and never get tickets.

sds law i guess.

Have good day people.

Thanks anyway.
Teufel
the law is that no signs are needed - the drop kerb is itself the indication that you cant park
dexs
QUOTE (Teufel @ Fri, 4 Sep 2009 - 12:43) *
the law is that no signs are needed - the drop kerb is itself the indication that you cant park


Thanks for that just been looking at all the rules on dropped kerb. looks like i need to pay. oh well thank you all for your help....
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