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FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Innocent?
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2009
Date of the NIP: - 3 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A56 Washway Road, south of Oakfield Road,, Sale
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Not aware of having been caught speeding. There is a camera in the area (Gatso) which I am aware of and am careful of so would be surprised if it was this. Before doing anything I am interested to know what evidence there is/how it was obtained. Should I request the photographic (or other) evidence by email and what should I say on the request? The leaflet with the NIP says I have a right to see it.

NIP says 40mph in a 30mph zone. What is the penalty likely to be and am I likely to get the awareness course option?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:54:31 +0100
Pete D
You could write to them and ask for any photo's to help you identify the driver at the time. Do not elaborate or use the words evidence or proof. The do not have to send them but often do. This does not stop the 28 day clock so do it now and keep it simple. A SAC is most probably not an option as it cuts off at 39 mph. 3 points and £60 applies here. I fit was not a fixed camera then the image you should recive will identify where and how you were clocked and the quality of the ping. No not return the NIP/S172 yet. Pete D
Innocent?
Thanks. That's what I was thinking of doing. Just emailing and saying I would be grateful if you would provide me with the photograph or video in relation to this case.

39mph is the cut off - bu**er!!

I guess my only hope if it is not a Gatso is to ask for the calibration certificate etc though if it's 3 points and a fine on a clean licence it might not be worth the hassle. I'll see what the photo shows then look into it further from there.

Cheers.

Pete D
Do not ask for the Cal cert yet as it may effect whether they send you a photo. These items are regarded as evidence and are not usually available until you plead not guilty to a summons. Pete D
PRg
Im suprised you got done there, I worked on that road doing a driveway for a few weeks and seen plenty of people floor it through the camera with no flash, I always thought it was an empty one.
Innocent?
I got the photos through today - both of them. It appears the car was overtaking a bike so I guess it must have been a choice between slowing right down for the bike or speeding up a bit to go around it and whoever was driving made the wrong decision. Reg number is barely legible on photos but I guess the originals must have been better. It was a gatso. Is there any point in trying to do anything about this?

Pete D
Does the distance travelled across the markers support the detected speed. If you are unsure then wash off the personal ID and post them in your thread for others to work out what speed you may have doing. The instructions are in the FAQ section. Pete D
Innocent?
Thanks. I've attempted the calculation but the gaps must be less than 5 feet so I guess I will have to go and measure them. I wouldn't think there will be doubt as to whether speeding or not but it might be worth checking as according to the info on here GMP have a limit of 39mph for speed awareness. That being the case, if it turns out to be slightly inaccurate and therefore less than 40mph, might this help in securing a speed awareness course? If this is the case I will go and measure the gaps and then might need advice on how to approach it in terms of wording a letter.

Thanks again
Pete D
The markers for Gatso's are 5ft or 6m Redspeed camera markings are 1m. Post them up and we'll help. Pete D
Innocent?
It says Gatsometer on the photo but if they are 5 ft then the speed would be 75mph!

I'll scan them and take off the personal info.

Cheers
BaggieBoy
QUOTE (Pete D @ Sun, 30 Aug 2009 - 14:39) *
The markers for Gatso's are 5ft or 6m Redspeed camera markings are 1m. Post them up and we'll help. Pete D

Typo I suspect, should be 2m.
Pete D
Have you accounted for the timing between the flashes. It is on the photo. Pete D
Innocent?
Bottom of info part of picture 2 says 0.5 sec 049.

If I try recalculating with 1m instead of 5 ft the speed is still 49 mph

Is there any harm in posting pics on here?
BaggieBoy
As long as you remove any identifying information, it's not a problem.
Pete D
Yes Typo 2mm not 6m.

7 marks * 5 feet * 0.6818 / 0.5 seconds = 47.7 mph

Pete D
Innocent?
Just looking at the number of lines the car covers and it can't be 5 feet between small marks. (just editing pic)
Innocent?



I make it 11 marks by lining up those in the other lane with a straight edge
Pete D
Yep it looks like 63 but I reckon 9.25 markers but you have edit the far markers out. Assuming not a faulty camera/flash timing then the only other reason for the difference between the radar detected speed and what appears from the marking is that you were accelerating and that must have been quite hard to gain 14mph from the point of detection. Can you explain your postion on the road, had you overtaken another vehicle prior to the gatso. Other that Redspeed spacing I have not seen markers less that 5 ft. You could go and measure them if they are local to you. Normally to question the detected speed you have to prove from the markers that there is an error substantially greater that 10%. You can do that, but in the wrong direction that may not be wise to disclose. What do others think. Pete D
Innocent?
I measured from the rear of the car as it's much easier to line up with the lines by using a straight edge across to the other lane. I counted those behind the car on each one using the point the back of the rear tyres touch the road. There are 7 and a bit on the first picture and 18 and a bit on the second - therefore 11 covered.

I do have some other details but would rather pm these.

It's only half a mile away so I could go and measure them later.

Innocent?
I just tried to work out the gap using the wheelbase (centre of tyre contact patch to centre of tyre contact patch) of the car which is 2.615 m and though hard to be exact it works out a lot closer.
Pete D
If the detected registered 40mph as per the NIP how come the car appears to be travelling at 63 mph. That is one big acceleration particularly as the spped is the average over the distance. Pete D
BaggieBoy
I have a feeling that the marks are 3 feet apart. The wheelbase of the car is 2.6m and seems to span 3 marks or so. This put the actual speed close to the 40MPH that is alleged.
Pete D
That would tie up. It is the first time I have encountered 3ft markers. Perhaps there are in fact 1m markers in prepaeration for a RedSpeed camera, although they are normally all the same width not the dragon's teeth type. Pete D
BaggieBoy
Hopefully the OP will return to the scene and measure them.
Innocent?
I've now measured them and they're 3ft apart (I measured a few to be sure and measured centre to centre). It looks like it's about right then I guess. I drove past another Gatso on the way home and the line spacing looked similar.
Pete D
I wonder what the significance of the 800 is that is painted on the road. Was there a number on the other similairly spaced location. Pete D
Innocent?
Not that I can remember but I will look more closely next time I pass it. Am I right in thinking I might as well just fill in the NIP and return it? Is there any point in enclosing a letter with it suggesting that the course would be a preferred option and that I feel it would be of more benefit?
The Rookie
Yup, fill in and return, you'll either be offered the course or not, we have never seen a situation where its appeared that a letter asking for one has made any difference at all.

Simon
Innocent?
We're in luck, she's been offered a speed awareness course!
BaggieBoy
The usual max speed for a SAC is 39, so that is a bit of a result.
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