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Paul_J
Hi, I got pulled over on the M23 yesterday by a unmarked blue/silver Mitsibushi Evo 8. They said my speed was clocked at 101 mph, but I have a few questions.

I have 0 points and in 3 years of driving, that was the first time I've ever been pulled over for anything (including road side checks etc).

I realised I was in the wrong and was speeding, but don't believe I was doing 101 mph (possibly less).


Basically, the situation was I was driving back up the M23 to meet a friend for lunch at 2pm, was running a bit late and so was doing about 90 in the outside lane, moving in the middle when there was space. I had only just joined the motorway, after leaving the services and noticed at that time there was a Silver/Blue (nice looking) Evo 8 in the outside lane speeding in excess of 100 mph (was moving away from me) and looked to have soon caught up traffic.

I have a Road Angel 2 set up in my car to alert me if I go over 100 mph and was maintaining the flow of traffic doing over 90 mph. I soon caught the evo that had been slowed by traffic and now the car ahead of him pulled in. The evo then pulled in and so I accelerated to overtake. I'm not totally sure what speed I was doing as I was looking at the road and the cars ahead, I do not remember my road angel beeping at me however so I assume I was under 100 mph.

After passing the evo, it pulled back out behind me, I continued to cruise at a steady speed until slowing for the traffic infront. The evo meanwhile had been right behind me, very close and suddenly I noticed blue flashing lights in the grill.

I pulled in to the center lane, to let it past - but it followed me. I then realised it was after me, so safely pulled across and came to a stop on the hard sholder.

The Police officer, asked me to exit my vechile, then asked for my license. I gave him my license and he cautioned me ('You have the right to remain silent...' - He told me I had been clocked at 101 mph as I passed them and I should sit back in my car.

There were two officers in the evolution. He came back and handed me a producer and also had a chat with me about road safety. I realised I was in the wrong and it's not something I do often.

He then pointed at the road angel 2 and said 'What's this?' (which he obviously knew what it was). I said 'That's a Road Angel', he said 'What's that do then?' (once again obviously knows what it does). I answered that it informs you of locations of camera's, schools and accident hot spots. He then replied 'Ah, so it doesn't tell you where the unmarked evo police cars are then?'  :roll:

From this, I got the feeling that they saw the road angel in my car, as I went to pass and as a result thought I was showing that I thought I was 'protected' - and thus pulled me. This was not the case, though the road angel never detected any laser.

He told me I would be contacted with 28 days and have to go to court, where I could face 6 points, a fine and a ban. (Is this a valid verbal NIP?).


Then told me to drive on. At no point was I offered to sit in their car, or view any evidence. I thought the first thing they would of done, would be to show me myself exceeding the limit. This was the first time I've been pulled, so I was in shock and quite shaken up at the time, after reading this site I realised I did several things wrong.


Basically, what are the chances of getting my hands on the video, if I get a summons letter through? I've read that the police car should not exceed the limits if its unmarked and does not have hazard lights / blue lights on. However when I first saw it, it was and when it followed me closely behind it also didn't have the lights on. When you have a EVO sitting up behind you, I did feel pressured to accelerate, not knowing it was a unmarked police car. Were they trying to push my speed to 101? (over the 100 mph marker?).

Since I was not offered any video evidence and the way the road angel detected nothing, would I be right in thinking they perhaps used the constant distance, speedo matching (to get my speed?) - in which case it's likely it could be out say 1 mph?

I wish to view their statement, and if the video evidence has not been retained, since I don't remember admitting to doing that specific speed - If I plead not guilty to 101 mph and plead guilty to say 95, would it be likely that I would be awarded this.

At the end of the day, I have no doubt I was over the limit - but between say 86-100 mph it's usually 4/5 points and a fine. Over 100mph its 6 points, a bigger fine and a ban! The ban is what I fear the most, even if its for 28 days my insurance will be through the roof when I renew.

I personally feel my speed was not over 100 mph and my driving was safe for the conditions. Do I have a case and how do I go about seeing the police statement when the summons letter comes through?

Thanks,

Paul Joslin
Paul_J
A couple of other little quick questions...

Firstly, if I get say a 28 day ban - do I get points as well? The officer said it was likely I'd get a fine, 28 day ban and 6 points?

And secondly, if I do get a ban, even if its 7 days - Is that a ban as in on Insurance 'I'd tick the box, have you ever been banned from driving?' sad.gif

Paul J
LancashireLad
No need for a paper NIP as a verbal NIP was given at the scene.  

Two officers will corroborate each other and assuming that the car had a calibrated speedo (unsually calibrated to 1mph) then 2 officers opinions plus a calibrated speedo is sufficient.  No need for video or laser (probably better in their case if they dont mention a video - then they dont need to disclose it to you.)  after saying that did they even MENTION a video?  Maybe there wasnt one.  

Since the road angel isnt type approved for speed monitoring (home office?) then it probably isnt admissable as evidence.  Plus speeding is an absolute offence so in admitting speeding they will at least prosecute for speeding, just wait and see what speed materialises on the FPN or summons.

6 Months to lay papers I think (from the time of the verbal NIP) and YES to both questions, points and tick to insurance.  The points will stick after the ban (for totting up purposes later)

Were you on a motorway at the time?  And they talked to you stood on the hard shoulder?  eek that sounds dangerous.

However since you admitted to them that you were speeding but not doing 101 then it may be better for a Newton Hearing (did I get it right?) i.e. say yes >70 but not 101.  Go for the lowest speed you think you can bargain.
Paul_J
Yes it was motorway. No video was mentioned. One officer stayed in the car while the other spoke to me outside and then made me sit back in my car.

I'm curious as to why 101 mph was used and not 100 mph, as I'm sure measuring on their speedo can't be that 100 % accurate?

Personally I felt I was definately exceeding the limit and would admit this in court, but not over 100 mph.
firefly
QUOTE (Paul_J)
I'm curious as to why 101 mph was used and not 100 mph, as I'm sure measuring on their speedo can't be that 100 % accurate?

Probably VASCAR, which measures the time taken to pass two fixed points and then works out the average speed.  101mph is not an unusual speed to be caught at.  I know someone ( icon_wink.gif ) who was alleged to be doing 92.9mph on a dual-carriageway when VASCAR was used.

Because there were two officers in the vehicle, you'll have a job on your hands arguing over the speed.  That is not to say you have no chance, but in order to get the evidence disclosed to you you'll have to plead not-guilty when the summons arrives.  You can then request the information you require, but not before.
Paul_J
Perhaps I'll just plead guilty (as I don't have the money for solicitor fees really) - and just get a letter from work saying I need my car and explain that I need my car to travel to university every day, as public transport isn't a viable option.

Felt gutted about the speed I was doing. Sort of just crept up on me, wasn't really watching the speedo.

Paul J sad.gif
Tamara-D
QUOTE (Paul_J)
He told me I would be contacted with 28 days and have to go to court, where I could face 6 points, a fine and a ban. (Is this a valid verbal NIP?).

This is a verbal NIP:

"You will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for this offence."

Did the officer say this to you, or something similar?

QUOTE (Paul_J)
I personally feel my speed was not over 100 mph and my driving was safe for the conditions. Do I have a case and how do I go about seeing the police statement when the summons letter comes through?

If they were using VASCAR, the 101 would have been an average speed.  I was pulled on the M1 for doing a maximum of 82mph and an average of 79mph.  :roll:

Speeding is an absolute offence, so above 70mph and you are open to abuse from the mobile mugging machines.  You could still be looking at a ban above 90mph - it depends on what mood the beak is in.

I would wait for the summons to arrive and post it up on here word for word.  One of the resident experts (Chris  :D ) will look over it and see if they have left any spare rope hanging. tongue.gif
peteturbo
TD said;

QUOTE
This is a verbal NIP:

"You will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for this offence."


correct.

So is;  'Good morning sunshine'

unless you can prove otherwise.  A verbal NIP is always assumed given ...
Snarf
Paul_J,

Aha! So it was you I passed by on the M23 then. I was on my way down to Brighton on Saturday and saw the snazzy looking Evo VIII on the harder shoulder chatting to someone. Posted on the Police Policy forum about the car, interesting that they seem to be running these now - no longer is it the Volvo or Omega...
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