Hi all,


Have been through this excellent site after recieving NIP and wondered if anybody could throw some light on my case...


I have a recollection of driving along on M4 (which I now realise is a speed camera hotspot) at a safe and controlled speed on a near clear motorway when i suddenly was extreamly startled by a strong flash. I immeadiatly look around and see a parked unmarked car on the hardshoulder with what at the time seemed like a woman standing at the back of the car with the boot open fully and holding a camera of some sort.

At the time (yeah call me bimbo!) i wondered to myself why the hell was some idiot taking pictures of a motorway and endangering motorists by startling them face on with such a powerful flash- which by the way seemed very powerful to have startled me so much on a bright day from the side of the road. It occured to me for a split second that it might have been a speed camera but them dismissed it because i was under the impression that cameras had to be clearly marked and sign posted well- in this case it was simply a parked TOTALLY unmarked car with a plainclothed person and NO sign posting etc.

Over the past four years i'v driven a LOT of miles per year and admitedly i do cruise at over the 70mph limit as do the majority of motorists when it is clearly safe and have never been caught (although after reading this forum am thinking that was short of miraculous due to the excessive use of mobile cameras) due to always keeping aware of my surroundings and possible cameras/patrols.


In this case however i am almost certain that i would have been keeping to the limit as i am so broke that every drop of petrol is precious and have been driving dead on 70 to save money...

I am intending to write and ask for a photo and was wondering if this kind of camera and tactic was common and if anybody has also had this experience-- what type of picture does this camera produce?? It seems as it will have been a forward/sideways facing snap.

I am a student and am very keen to get out of paying money i CANNOT afford- as well as avoiding points because i use my car a lot and getting caught along the M4 stretch now just seems enevitable at some time or another!

Any body out there got any advice or experience to share?
I have about 3 weeks before 28 days of NIP are up.



Thanks in advance!

Where abouts on M4 ....
I believe its 14 days for the NIP to come through

Just sit and wait ... and read as much as you can on here !?!?

8)

She's already received the NIP. The 28 days are to respond to the S172 request for information regarding the driver.

I'd be quite frankly amazed & interested if it was a speed camera...
None are handheld...  
And none of the type that you 'could' hold, fire off a bright flash..
Very strange :?

damnIt - post the NIP details up as per the stick instructions: ie date of offence, date NIP received, are you RK (registered keeper) etc.

Will make things clearer for the folks, and there may be discrepencies...

Yeah i thought it was increadibly strange that there was such a bright flash and that it was head on because as far as i'm aware that why gatso's are rear facing- so that they dont flash in the driver's face- also i am pretty sure it was handheld because the person then seemed to bend over to reach into the boot and i dont recall seeing any kind of tripod-- however must remember that this was at some speed between 70-90 and i was either in middle or far lane at the time.

After looking into the different types of cameras i couldnt work out which it could be in this case so thats why i posted here to see if this rings a bell with anybody else.

Thing is it is possible that this incident really was someone taking pics of the beautiful landscape (!) of the last leg of M4 in South wales and that i was caught by a parked police vehicle/ mobile unit without being aware of it (as there are plenty of spots along this road where this could happen). This is why i suppose i'm not going to be any the clearer  about what i can do wihtout requesting and getting to see the picture (??) unless anyone has any ideas (?)


Chadders: i feel a little uneasy about posting the NIP details on an open forum in light of my admissions in my first post- but can confirm that recieved the NIP within a week of alleged offence and am the RK

Not wanting to state the obvious, but are you sure it was a flash. Was the car on the hard shoulder a hatch back and when the person opened the boot the sun may have caught it and flashed on to your car. You did say it was a sunny day. On a sunny day it would be unlikely you would see a camera flash that brightly unless it was right in your face.

You will probably find that the car on the hard shoulder was broken down and the person was getting something out of the boot (Spare Wheel?) and it was just a glint of sunlight reflecting of the glass. You were probably caught somewhere else by another unit (Probably Hidden  :evil: )

It would be best if you post up more details after reading This Post

ok dont take the reference to 'bimbo' too seriously!!  :)


The car's boot was already open, i described the day as bright not sunny, and there was definatly a significant flash. Futhermore there was no other possible unit that could have caught me at that point in time save max. 3 vechicles towards my rear and in which case there would not have been a flash. Also there was no overhead bridge or any other possible vantage point for a camera.

When i saw the flash i slowed down and took a good look around because i was so suprised. I say it seemed like the person was holding a camera becasue i saw them lower both hands/arms  from face area in a manner that you would after having taken a picture whilst facing my direction. When the flash happened i was startled and by the time i looked to the left (2-3 secs) i was approaching/level with the person and car so got a clear look and line of sight.

I know it seems strange and odd which is why i was posting it- seems very unlikely to me also and i would have forgotten about it had i not recieved this NIP. I drive down this road very regularily and it would take something out of the ordinary to startle me.


1. Was the offence in England or Scotland and the name of the Constabulary? South Wales Police- Safety Camera Unit
2. Date of the offence 2 weeks ago
3. Date of the NIP 1 week later
4. Date you received the NIP 1 week later so now have approx 3 weeks before end of 28 days
5. Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery?     First class normal post
6. Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned? Yes
7. Do you hold a UK or foreign driving licence. UK
8. How many current points do you have? None


The NIP says:
Alleged offence: Excess Speed 70 mph, Camera Device, Recorded speed 90 mph

This was between cardiff and port talbot heading west- the NIP is more specific giving me two junctions but i didnt want to post that here. The location of the NIP ties in with my recollection of the 'flash' and that there were 3 lanes along that stretch also matches.


I suppse the photo will throw more light........

That is your next best bet, ask for the photos. You can ask for the photos for the following reasons, If you were unsure you were the driver and you want them to help identifacation or you want to make sure it was your car that was photographed and not a cloned vehicle.

I am in no way suggesting that you use these reasons as a defence against the speeding charge, but they are the best ways to secure the photographs.

The next thing you want to think about is which way you want to go on.
The PACE statement is the best way forward at the moment, but even that is producing mixed results with some forces accepting it as satisfying Section 172 and other forces not excepting it. There are even some forces (TVP for one) that are both excepting it and rejecting it as satisfying section 172. So there is a deal of confusion what is happening with it at the moment.

The thing to remember is though, is that no one who has supplied a PACE statement has yet been convicted of either a speeding charge or a S172 offence. One day they will take someone through the legal system to prove a point, but until then we wait

Thanks Lee- will do that at end of week and see how it goes

Probably speaking out of turn here, but could the 'flash' simply have been a mis-aimed laser?

The laser in the LTi 20 20 has a wavelength of 904nm. Visible light is IIRC typically 400-600nm - so the laser should not be visible to the human eye.

Thats what I'm putting my money on. There is no way IMO, even the stupidest dumbest scameravan or police patrol would be parked on the main carriageway hard shoulder to catch people speeding. Thats the fastest way to reduce life expectancy for someone on the motorways...  

I'll put money on it you were clobbered by the old friend of the M4 'van on bridge'  :roll:

Need some quick advice....

Have sent a letter to South Wales safety camera unit to request photo evidence but they still have not got back to me and my NIP runs out on thursday!!!  (2 days time)

Letter was sent 12 days ago!!
Royal Mail Tracking Service says not delivered yet and that it has to be late by 15 days before its classified as missing and they do something about it- but that takes me over the NIP date... It seems ridiculous that a letter posted first class from mid-wales cannot get to Cardiff in 12 days but there you go!!!

Question is should I just send PACE letter now so that i don't fall foul of 28 day expiry or shall i resend the original letter explaining the delay (if i do this  i assume i dont get an extension for the NIP so doesnt sound like a good idea)

I really want to have the photographic evidence before signing anything, but at same dont want to add to the problem by going over NIP date... so what should i do???


Any help/advice appreciated...

I would suggest writing to the scammers again, repeating your request for photos which might assist you ascertain who was driving.

Always get and keep proof of posting. It is becoming more prevalent that we did not receive it. It will be vital when push comes to shove.

ok how does the following letter do?




Is it too much to quote the act (thanks andy!) in there?
And should I add a line confirming that I am the registered keeper?

nb. i realise that 28 days expire on wednesday as the date of nip is included!

The quote from the RTA was for your benefit. I can't see how it would hurt to include it, but I personally wouldn't bother.
IMHO, it is more important to stress that the letter that they have so far not responded to included a request for photos, to assist in identifying the driver. One of our members (I forget who) was done for S172 because he didn't chase up the scammers after the first time they failed to supply him with photos!

andy_foster wrote:
You can clearly see why you need proof of posting!!!!??
In case you have no proof of your first letter, quickly followup and keep the proof that you posted it.

well thankfully after reading this forum I made sure to send first class recorded delivery so I have proof of posting-- although they havent recieved it yet according to royal mail records that I just checked earlier today...

but thats not my fault is it...

That's ma boy!  :wink:  :wink:
Balls well a truly in the court  :lol:  :lol:

LOL!!

Thanks bluedart [she says]

it would almost certainly have been the van on the bridge near junction 35 (pencoed).  it is there every other day as i go down that way quite a lot.  Also I quite often see marked police cars on the "police patrol" areas waiting to chase up those "high speed" drivers just after the camera.

think you can see it here sometimes...
http://www.british-towns.net/welsh/traffic...th_wales_M4.htm