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babyface
Dear all,
This is just a speculative post as its too early to know whether I was zapped or not.
I was on the M4, going to drop my bike for its first service. I saw a camera van on the bridge ahead, which made me check my speedo, and I realised that I was doing about 95. I braked to 70, and it was about 10 seconds until I passed the bridge. I then panicked, checked my mirror and swerved onto the leftmost lane as I went under the bridge, thinking that they would not be able to register my number plate as I had changed course and fooled them(!?). I am now panicking to the nth degree as I'm now aware that I could be banned and fined upto £2k. I know that I should've been watching my speed more carefully, and there's no excuse. I just hope that I get away with it.
Any comments would be gratefully received, and I will update my post should I get something through the post.
Ta.
2020Hindsight
Was the bridge narrow enough for the camera van to see across to you exiting?
the1952gunslinger
Where was this?

Was the van on "your side" of the overbridge facing you oncoming, or on the otherside reading your rear plate?

If its oncoming, and if it was looking at your lane, then it probably has zapped you. If looking at your rear then you may be lucky.

Were there any others speeding/ faster than you?

Are you sure it was a scammer and not ANPR?

Its a waiting game I fear
babyface
Definitely not ANPR as there were no cameras on tripods outside, and they were facing my lane, so it looks like I was zapped, and-2020Hindsight-I'm banking on the fact that the bridge was wide enough to obstruct their view of my registration. I don't think that anyone was going faster than me, and if I was in their shoes and I saw a biker in the "fast" lane, I would definitely try my luck with that zapper. I guess its a waiting game like gunslinger said. I would be gutted as I've only just bought this bike and also the insurance is not cheap!

Ocelot
If the worst comes to the worst you should be eligible for a COFP of £60 and 3 points. If your speedo stated 95 you were probably less anyway, as most overrcord by 5-10%.
Northern
Which junction of the m4 are we talking about?
the1952gunslinger
QUOTE (babyface @ Wed, 15 Jul 2009 - 21:26) *
Definitely not ANPR as there were no cameras on tripods outside, and they were facing my lane, so it looks like I was zapped, and-2020Hindsight-I'm banking on the fact that the bridge was wide enough to obstruct their view of my registration. I don't think that anyone was going faster than me, and if I was in their shoes and I saw a biker in the "fast" lane, I would definitely try my luck with that zapper. I guess its a waiting game like gunslinger said. I would be gutted as I've only just bought this bike and also the insurance is not cheap!


Sorry- I didn't realise you were on your bike.

So if the scamera is facing you, you don't have a reg plate on the front do you?

Can't see how they could then read your rear plate if the unit is facing you head on.

I recon you're in the clear!
captain swoop
Mk1 Eyeballs and a notebook? Camera in the cab recording the back of the bike?
babyface
It was the junction around Swindon-ish. You're right gunslinger, I've only got 1 number plate-at the rear, but Ive heard that sometimes they can turn around and note down your reg (or record it), and that can be enough to prosecute. I'm also hoping that I might be out of their range, or that I reacted quick enough to avoid a long enough exposure for accurate reading. I've read that they can read up to 0.622 miles, but I reckon that I might've only been about 0.3 miles. The silly thing is, I know that they usually hang out on that bridge! I've already got the bicycle out in anticipation of my fate and dusted off the cobwebs lol.

How long do the NIP's usually take to arrive?
the1952gunslinger
surely the "evidence" (I use that word with caution) is a pic of the offending vehicle showing the plate....................

These vans only operate facing one way, and thats on the side of the overbridge nearest the direction they're scamming- so in your case they were apparently watching you face on (i.e. no plate at the front)

If one of the civilian operators did indeed look at your rear:-

1) would he have been quick enough?
2) Could he in fact read the plate from that angle/ distance
3) would it be admisable in a court? (think not)

I travel that section 3 or 4 times a week. They park up to generate revenue- "safety" doesn't come into in.

BTW when the M/W van scheme went live a few years ago the local TV station covered the launch from inside one of the scammers vans- you could see all the equipment and also the figure "80" illuminated on the gear- trigger speed??????????
Northern
Junction 16 & 17 are known camera sites around swindon.
QUOTE
How long do the NIP's usually take to arrive?

Within 14 days of offence, provided you are the registered keeper, with correct address on the log book!

It is usual for the scammers to clock the speed of an oncomming motorbike, then read the numberplate after it goes past, however I do not know procedure regarding civilian operated units, if indeed, this is the case!
captain swoop
QUOTE
3) would it be admisable in a court? (think not)


Why do you think that?
the1952gunslinger
no photographic evidence (no plate showing) and just the "judgement" of a civilian operator.

Having said that, the lack of any tangible evidence hasn't stopped these "Safety Partnerships" before has it?.....................
Northern
How do you know it's a civilian operator?
captain swoop
Plus, how do you know there's no photo evidence, some of the vans have a camera for recording the plates of vehicles after they have passed.
the1952gunslinger
QUOTE (captain swoop @ Fri, 17 Jul 2009 - 13:30) *
Plus, how do you know there's no photo evidence, some of the vans have a camera for recording the plates of vehicles after they have passed.


How do you know that?

Rather than give the original poster a bit of hope, can I therefore suggest that whenever we see any of these vans, we just send off our details, a cheque for £60 and our D/L's without waiting for the NIP.................

Such negative waves gentlemen.

QUOTE (Northern @ Fri, 17 Jul 2009 - 11:33) *
How do you know it's a civilian operator?


yep- you're right- its probably a real copper out looking for "easy" targets instead of fighting proper crime.

No wonder this country is in the state its in..............
Northern
QUOTE
How do you know it's a civilian operator?

yep- you're right- its probably a real copper out looking for "easy" targets instead of fighting proper crime.

No wonder this country is in the state its in..............

So you don't know then?!
the1952gunslinger
The likelihood is that it is a civilian operator- at least all the ones I've come across in my job have been.

The Police have "much more important things to do" apparently (and thats a direct quote)


No doubt the policy may change from force to force, so there may be police lurking in these vans when they've got some spare time.


As I intimated, you don't have to look on the possible bright side- simply accept what they say and pay the penalties.

To be honest, if the guy was viewed from the rear, thus clocking the plate, as he passed under the overbridge, then a Barrister should be able to shoot that bit of the evidence down in flames. But that takes money, and money at the moment isn't too thick on the ground, so 99% of us take the penalty. Fact of life- not all of us are Premier League footballers!

IMO he should be OK. but am happy to be proved wrong (the OP won't) I would be very interested to hear the outcome IDC- Can the OP please advise?
Northern
An officers word is generally accepted in court and would be hard to disprove, one on one!
Keep ya fingers crossed and hope nothing comes in the post over the next week!
captain swoop
QUOTE (the1952gunslinger @ Sat, 18 Jul 2009 - 09:43) *
To be honest, if the guy was viewed from the rear, thus clocking the plate, as he passed under the overbridge, then a Barrister should be able to shoot that bit of the evidence down in flames.



Why do you think this?
the1952gunslinger
needs to prove its the same vehicle.

Can the person realistically be 100% sure that he's read the plate correctly?

Assuming the van is parked on the overbridge nearest the oncoming traffic, the angle of view is more pronounced for traffic moving away, and therefore the plate won't be in view until a fair distance has passed.

M/C plates are a lot smaller than car plates

This poster moved into a different lane- anyone watching is expecting the vehicle in the same lane as they entered the overbridge area

cameras need to look direct at the vehicle (not thru glass). Never seen a scamera van with another side window open on the other side at the same time

Personally, if the accused has enough time and money then a decent barrister should be able to creat enough doubt that the number is correct/ its the same vehicle. But as I said above- we're not all loaded and most of us would take the "cheap" route out.
Pete D
Not quite, the Laser and attached camera must not view through glass but a secondary 'ID' camera is not restricted. Some have them above the cab and others I've seen are mounted inside the cab. Further, if the 'Session' video does not capture any other bike in the surrounding period and either the operator write down or the secondary camera captures the reg then it is extremely difficult to cast doubt on that. Pete D
Northern
QUOTE
needs to prove its the same vehicle

Operators statement is usually enough to do that!
QUOTE
Can the person realistically be 100% sure that he's read the plate correctly?

It is usually done this way! Unless a sedcondary camera records details!
QUOTE
This poster moved into a different lane- anyone watching is expecting the vehicle in the same lane as they entered the overbridge area

Unlikely to fool the operator!
babyface
Hey people, thank you for the posts so far. Its now Tuesday, 10 days after the incident, and I haven't received anything as of yet. Being optimistic yet pessimistic as well-have already started to cycle places already! I cannot wait for the 14 days to be over, as I presume if I haven't received it by then, it is not valid?
Northern
QUOTE
I cannot wait for the 14 days to be over, as I presume if I haven't received it by then, it is not valid?

Correct!
However, you must still respond the the 172 request, if received late or on time!
Just include a polite letter reminding the scammers the nip/172 request is incorrecly served!
And always keep a copy of the nip for yourself as proof (& keep the envelope it came in)
Northern
Can we take it you did not receive anything!?
babyface
QUOTE (Northern @ Tue, 28 Jul 2009 - 13:54) *
Can we take it you did not receive anything!?

Yes! Thank god for that!
No more speeding on the M4 for me wink.gif
the1952gunslinger
Good for you mate!

You see, it pays to think positive at times......................................
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