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scbk
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - June 2009
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - 313 INVERNESS TO PERTH ROAD (A9) NR BLAIR ATHOLL
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - It was 2am, I had been following a tesco artic for a few miles, oncoming traffic so no chance to overtake. I knew there was a long downhill straight ahead with a gatso on it so once I could see it was clear I went for it, but sticking to 60 not to set the camera off (it's NSL). The camera went off as I was either straddling both sides of the road or on the "wrong" side of the road. The vehicle speed on the NIP is 60mph on the dot, the vehicle is van so lower limit applies. It is marked down as "304 EXCEED 50 MPH SPEED LIMIT - CLASS OF VEHICLE"

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:26:56 +0100
BaggieBoy
So you knew the limit was lower for your vehicle but thought you would get away with it?
scbk
Exactly wink.gif

I've been through it at a simmilllar speed before, and I've seen others go past it faster, so I assume they must've upgraded it with some kind of weight sensors?

Having not seen the photos, I take it the vehicle's position on the road has nothhing to do with the calibration against the markings on the road? (ie it wasn't directly on top of them)
Also, do they send you the photos when you return the NIP?
jobo
no mate you need to ask for them BEFORE returning, ask for picis to help id driver not proof or evidence
BaggieBoy
Many (most? all?) GATSOs are capable of determining that the vehice is large by the RADAR return amplitude being higher. Consequently they trigger on the lower limit, as you have found. Your position on the road shouldn't make any difference.

If you want photographs it is better to request them before sending back the NIP. If you write to them requesting "photographs to help identify the driver" (do not use the words "proof" of "evidence"), they will usually send them. Be aware though, you still have to name the driver withing the 28 days allowed, whether they send photographs or not.
scbk
I sent a polite letter asking for the photos to help identify the driver, and this is the repsonse:



"Dear Mr xxxxx

NOTICE NUMBER xxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for yor correspondence regarding the above notice.

I note your request for a copy of the photographic evidence however I would advise that the evidence captured is rear facing and will not assist in identifying the driver therefore a copy of this evidence is not enclosed.

The Road Traffic Act 1998, section 172, as amended, places a legal responsibility on the Registered Keepers, or other reasonably named persons, to give all information that is in their power to give as to the indentity of the driver at the time of the alleged offence

Yours

Office Manager"
scbk
So is that it then? No chance of seeing the photos?
BaggieBoy
It seems not. You have no right to any evidence unless you decide to take it to court and plead not guilty. They know this and have decided not to be nice.
scbk
I posted the NIP back unsigned a good week or so ago, and today I received this letter:

--

Dear Sir/Madam

AUTOMATICALLY DETECTED OFFENCE: NUMBER C********

I refer to the above matter and would comment as follows.

I am in receipt of a Notice of Intended Prosecution however it is in complete. There notice is herewith enclosed and I would ask that you provide full details at the areas highlighted and return the completed Notice within 7 days.

Should you require assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours faithfully

xx
Office Manager

--

And inside there was a new NIP with the driving licence number, phone number, and signature sections highlighted

So what next?
Northern
Make sure you are out, should the BIB call round during the six months from date of alleged offence! dry.gif

scbk
So re-fill it back in as unsigned or just ignore and see what happens?
The Rookie
Either, personally I would fill in unsigned as before and send it back just past their 'deadline' as it may delay the process by a day or two.

Simon
scbk
Todays update:

Last Tuesday I posted off the 2nd unsigned NIP, so it would've got to them about 10 days after their deadline.

Now they have sent another "I refer to the above matter and would comment as follows." letter, complete with a copy of my 2nd NI, and they have highlighted (this time using a different colour! laugh.gif ) the signature box.

I'm thinking post it back in a week or so as it is, god this letter exchange could go on for ever laugh.gif laugh.gif
The Rookie
No, only 6 months with any luck....

Simon
keithy69
If you've filled in the original NIP with named driver and didnt sign it, they have the drivers info. If they have sent a copy as you have stated looking for a sig. phone no. etc id just ignore it TBH (or get someone else to fill in details again and return unsigned) If you sign it your pretty much admitting the offence! personally i'd ignore it.. and dont answer the door!
HTH
scbk
grrrr just had the local force round taking my details dry.gif
scbk
....and the conditional offer came in the post today mellow.gif

Oh well, it was worth a try
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