Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Need Urgent Advice Please
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
sukiuk
My friend was in a RTA a few weeks ago on his bike, it was lunch time and his bike went under him on a patch of oil, there was a police car passing who helped him up, tested his breath and was done for DD, he was just over the limit. The advice I want to know is that he got hold of his insurance, told them what happened, said that he was over the limit, well they paid him out for the cost of the bike, and he also bought the bike back off the insurance company approx 10 days ago he received the cheque.

A letter arrived at his door yesterday saying something down the lines of that they were suspending the insurance I take it under further investigations, they quoted this from the section of the policy 'We will not pay for any loss or damage to your motorcycle unless you take all reasonable precautions to safeguard it'.

Where does he stand as there is no where in the policy that mentions DD and he has been paid out for the bike. Will they expect the money and the bike back.
jeffreyarcher
1) Suspending the policy, it dpeneds what the polcy says; there isn't usually provision to do this, there is usually provision to cease policies in the event of a 'total loss' payout. Even if there isn't the latter, there is usually a provison to cease the policy, and make a pro rata refund.
2) There is usually nothing, in principle, to prevent them coming back to the insured to recover monies paid. However, before paying out, they usually make it abundantly clear, and the insured has to agree that, 'this is a full and final settlement'. That is binding on both parties.
If they try it on, I think I'd be tempted just to say, "F* off, see you in court". Your friend is in the fortunate position of having the money.
3) I don't see how they can re-open the sale of the wreck, if it was a separate transaction; i.e. concluded separately from the original deal, and not as part of it.
sukiuk
Thank you for your input, my friend will log in under my name when he gets in, as I don’t know the full details that is on the letter that he received, but I do know that they agreed to give him the money for the bike less the money for him to buy the bike back, so it was done under the same contract. What we want to know can they change their mind and ask for the money back, as he was done for DD. This seems to be one hell of a mess.

The Rookie
Most insurance companies suspend a policy following a total loss of the insured vehcile as Andy says), as it sounds like the bike was deemed a total loss (aka written off) then that is probably why the policy has been suspended and nothing to do with the DD at all. If ther has been a claim, most insurers will not also refund any balance remaining on the policy, I have had 2 friends subjected to this in the past, not really fair, but all in the policy 'small print', I also had similar after cancelling a policy agaisnt which a small TP claim was paid (less than £100) where they refused to refund the balance due to the claim but I nailed them with their responce to a phone call (they had recorded) where they promised a refund BEFORE I had cancelled the policy.

Simon
sukiuk
Hi Thanks for the reply, the way that I am taking it, is that they have paid out on the claim for the bike even though he had been done for DD, but they have now said that they have put a stop on the claim, the way that the letter reads is that they dont even know that they have paid him out.
I know he is having trouble with his computer but as soon as he gets back on line he will come on here himself and perhaps can explain better.
Thank you for your time.
sukiuk
Hello again thanx for info so far. would like to quote the letter I received and then the actual paragraph that letter reffers to:-
We have been informed that you are likely to be prosecuted for ridding under the influence.
pending investigation of the outcome, we are unable to to deal with the repairs/total loss to your vehicle as you have failled to safeguard your vehicle as quoted on page 16 of your policy booklet.Please not that we will deal with any third party claims if presented.Please comfirm outcome of this incedent
Claims negotiator
......................................
This is the text from page 16 :-
GENERAL EXCLUSIONS

Use and Riders

We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability caused in the following circumstances:

While your motorcycle is being used for a purpose not permitted on your Certificate of Insurance.

While your motorcycle is being used in any race, rally, competition, trial or similar motoring event.

While your motorcycle is being ridden or used on any race, rally, test circuit or on any off road course or

ground or for any purpose on a race track or private or public circuit whatsoever.

While your motorcycle is being ridden by you or is in the charge of any person, for the purpose of riding,

who is not permitted to ride as shown on your Certificate of Insurance.

While your motorcycle is being ridden by you or is in the charge of any person, for the purpose of riding,

who is disqualified from driving or does not hold a valid driving licence.

While your motorcycle is being ridden by you or is in the charge of any person, for the purpose of riding,

who holds a provisional or restricted driving licence and is not complying with the terms of the licence.

While your motorcycle is being ridden by, or is in the charge of, for the purpose of riding, any person

without your permission.

(However we do cover use for overhaul, upkeep or repair by any member of the motor trade as long as they are

permitted to ride as shown on the Certificate of Insurance.)

Safety and Security

We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability if:

your motorcycle is in an unsafe, damaged or unroadworthy condition.

you do not have a valid MOT test certificate when the law says you must have one.

your motorcycle is being driven with a load or a number of passengers which is unsafe.

your motorcycle is carrying an insecure load.

We will not pay for any loss or damage to your motorcycle unless you take all reasonable precautions to

safeguard it.

We will not pay for any loss or damage if your motorcycle is not securely locked and the keys removed when it

is unattended.

Other Contracts

We will not pay for any liability you have under an agreement or contract unless you would be liable if the

agreement or contract did not exist.

14

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS continued

War, Earthquakes, Riots, Terrorism

We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability that is directly or indirectly caused by war, invasion, act of

foreign enemy, hostilities (whether war is declared or not), civil unrest, rebellion, revolution, insurrection or

requisition, act of terrorism, riot or similar event, confiscation or nationalisation by any government or other

authority.

We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability directly or indirectly caused by earthquake.

We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability directly or indirectly caused by terrorism. "Terrorism" is as

defined in the Terrorism Act 2000 or the equivalent legislation in any other country.

Nuclear/Radioactive Contamination

We will not pay for loss, damage or liability directly or indirectly caused by:

ionising radiations or contamination by radioactivity from nuclear fuel or nuclear waste.

the radioactive, toxic, explosive or other dangerous properties of any explosive nuclear equipment.

Pollution

We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability caused directly or indirectly by pollution or contamination.

Airport Use

We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability arising while your or any other motorcycle covered by this

insurance is in any place where aircraft take off, land or park including any associated service roads, refuelling

areas, ground equipment areas or the Customs examination areas of international airports.

Sonic Bangs

We will not pay for loss, damage or liability caused directly or indirectly by pressure waves from aircraft or other

aerial devices travelling at sonic or supersonic speeds.

Criminal Acts

We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability caused while your motorcycle is being used by you or any

insured person for any criminal activity.

[/size]

[size="4"]Thanx to group for any advice to this.

jobo
what did it say in the letter which made the offer of settlement or contaned the cheque

did it say in full and final settlement
Jimzzr
You can't usually insure something you don't have an interest in, thus if a vehicle is a total loss the policy normally ends, however, this is not the same as suspension. Your friend is fortunate that the policy does not have a specific DD clause as many now do. If as JA says the payout was accompanied by a letter stating full and final settlement I don't think there's any way the ins co could get their money back. If he didn't have the cash I'd suggest he went to the insurance ombusman (as I don't think it's at all obvious that the clause they are using was meant to apply to this situation - if the policy is not clear then they should find in your friends favour). As he has the cash I think I'd sit tight for now and see if they start court proceedings to recover the cash.

Jim
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (Jimzzr @ Fri, 19 Jun 2009 - 14:30) *
You can't usually insure something you don't have an interest in, thus if a vehicle is a total loss the policy normally ends,

Although perhaps of academic in the instant case, that is not strictly true. It is the line that insurance companies took until they were beaten in the High Court. Comprehensive policies cover other risks than the insured vehicle (e.g. the third party driving extension), and the writing off of the insured vehicle doen't give the insurance companies an automatic get out of all these other insured risks.
That is why the wording of the policy now has to make clear that the policy will cease in the event of a total loss payout on the insured vehicle (whch they now invariably do).

QUOTE (Jimzzr @ Fri, 19 Jun 2009 - 14:30) *
As he has the cash I think I'd sit tight for now and see if they start court proceedings to recover the cash.

Exactement; the ball's in their court (except, perhaps, on the suspension issue).
sukiuk
In reply,I will quote the letter that carried the cheque:-
We regret to inform you as a result of your recend claim your vehicle has been deemed beyound repair.

Please find enclosed a cheque for £1,306.20 in settlement of your claim.
this figure less your policy excess of £200
Also please note this figure has been reduced by £708.80 which is salvage value of your retained vehicle.
This is the value that the motor engineer has placed on your vehicle and is representitive of current market values for the vehicle type,age,millage and condition,if you believe that the figure stated above is not a fair valuation,please provide documentary evidence of vehicles of similar age,milage,condition and specirication that are currently for sale.
Please be advised that as stated above, the vecicle remains in your possesion and you are responsible for either aranging the salvage or repairs to the vehicle and will be held liable for any further costs incurred.
yours sinceerly
Tolal loss team
...........................

Would like to add that the break down of their figures was based on total loss class C,the offer was £2215, less £200 excess,less byback of vehicle for £708 80 leving the balance stated of £1306.20
Keeper
QUOTE (sukiuk @ Fri, 19 Jun 2009 - 13:43) *
Criminal Acts
We will not pay for any loss, damage or liability caused while your motorcycle is being used by you or any

insured person for any criminal activity.

Whilst not a contract lawyer at all, I would think it possible there is no need for a seperate DD clause with the above as part of the policy. I guess this could also apply to any motoring offence, hit someone at 71mph on the motorway, instantly no payout!


sukiuk
ok taking that into account I imformed my broker and insurance compamy of the offence against me was told over phone that DD does not always mean no pay out???
so I just sat back while repairers sent engineer out to access the damage.
I got in touch with loss adjusters who got in touch will insurers to get the OK to pay me out. this I thought was the end of it not questioning it as I then asumed I was entitled to the cover on vehicle.
This letter saying rhat I was not came after the fact, by which time cheque had cleared and have taken steps to repair the vehicle.
i just dont know my legal standing here as was lead to beleive it was all above board morso with letter of settlement. Im in no position to pay this money back as due to unemployment and injuries from incident, mortgage etc have used the payout to fund my everyday living, Just where do I do from here?
Thanx again in advance
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (sukiuk @ Fri, 19 Jun 2009 - 18:42) *
Just where do I do from here?


QUOTE (jeffreyarcher @ Fri, 19 Jun 2009 - 15:03) *
QUOTE (Jimzzr @ Fri, 19 Jun 2009 - 14:30) *
As he has the cash I think I'd sit tight for now and see if they start court proceedings to recover the cash.

Exactement; the ball's in their court (except, perhaps, on the suspension issue).

Nothing; they have to sue you, not the other way round.
The Rookie
QUOTE (sukiuk @ Fri, 19 Jun 2009 - 13:43) *
we are unable to to deal with the repairs/total loss to your vehicle as you have failled to safeguard your vehicle as quoted on page 16 of your policy booklet.
SNIP
We will not pay for any loss or damage to your motorcycle unless you take all reasonable precautions to

safeguard it.

Hmm reading that proviso under safety and security, I think is stretching it to apply to DD, however the fact that they say they can't progress a claim they have already settled sounds like their left hand isn't talking to the right, also this makes no mention of the policy cancellation, I still think that is due to the total loss.

Simon
THEGMAN
If the vehicle was a total loss write off did it not require a VIC check at the DVLA testing station?
jobo
thats only for car A & B & c write offs , D dont need such
THEGMAN
Has that changed recently then as my car was a CAT D in 2005 and I was required to attend a VIC.
sukiuk
How do you think I should reply to the last letter. I dont want to ignore it but dont want to shoot myself in the foot.
As I said didnt ethe fact I had been arested for DD to either my broker or the insurance company,When I was told I was entitled to cover on the vehicle I was both suprised and happy.It was class C loss so was deemed repairable. I was asked over the phone if I wanted to buy back the vehicle and the difference was posted to me and cashed and cleared. I have already taaken steps to repair with monies received. what are my rights and if they can recover can I pay them back in installments as I just dont have the money as have paid off bills with it.
thanks in advance
jobo
not re read the letter but from memory it didnt ask for a reply, it just made some statements

therefore why reply, eventualy they will realise they have cock up, if they then sk for the money back tell them to take a running jump
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.