Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Need Some Advice - Going to claim not guilty and duress!
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
radds
Let me set the scene. I'm out in London, driving home around 11:30pm at a leisurely pace. I roll onto the A40* and a black Mercedes Coupe is on my right, another car to my left. I look across and the occupants of the Mercedes are jeering at me unprovoked - a passenger points to his neck and then at me. Further down the road I join the M* and see the same car approaching me from behind.

So what would you do in this situation? I couldn't call the police, they would probably do nothing and my mobile wasn't hands free - so I decide to build some distance between them and myself. Doing about 85mph now and about to slow down, I see two lights (neons so I assume the Mercedes) approaching from down the road. I watch and then accelerate as they get closer.  

I reach 100mph and the car still approaches, 105mph and the car still approaches - I'm shaking at this point, its like something out of a film and see two cars ahead, and the slow lane is empty. I fly into the slow lane, cut across in front of the person in the middle lane and back up to the fast lane again.  

This is the point where the police finally decide to put on their blue flashing lights, the Mercedes turns out not to be a Mercedes, but a BMW traffic car.  

Anyway, I pull over and accept that I was speeding, explain about the black Mercedes Coupe and watch myself being a complete and utter idiot on their monitor. The speed measured over the distance was 105mph and above.  

I already have three points and I guess I'm looking at a ban, six to nine points and a shedload of fines - my only mitigating circumstance was that the police car was tailing me without blue lights, with me in the belief that I was about to be part of somesort of ganster initiation ritual!  

The video showed the driving of a desperate man, what now?  I was read my rights, they have taken notes on the black Mercedes Coupe (should be on film) and been charged with dangerous driving and speeding.
g_attrill
You explained your reasons at the scene and they wrote it down - this is very good because it should line up with the car seen on the video, and thinking up something like that

Others might be able to correct me, but you could plead guilty and explain the "special circumstances" which led you to take the actions. You would not challenging the facts of the case (a police car has videoed the weaving and speeding) but you are giving an excuse and pleading leniency.

If you plead guilty by post and said nothing more then your penalties sound about right, but if they believe you then they are able to reduce them considerably. I think you would still get a conviction code on the licence - does anybody else know?

Others have more knowledge than I do on what to do next, so I won't say too much.  I think it basically involves waiting for the officer's statements and checking that they record what you said. Then you would need to find the car in the video and refer to it as evidence that backs up your story. Getting the video is fun though!

edit: I should add that seeking advice from a specialist motoring solicitor is worth considering, they will be able to prepare mitigation correctly. John Josephs, Robert Dobson and Nick Freeman are three names that spring to mind.

Gareth
zuegma
QUOTE (radds)
The video showed the driving of a desperate man, .


I think he means the video showed him driving like a desparate man rather than the mercedes he thought was chasing him. If the police had the mercedes on video I don't think they would have advised him he was to be charged with dangerous driving and speeding until they had fully investigated the actions of the mercedes.

All it appears they have is the video of him driving the way he did with no other cars in view. If he was caught from behind the traffic car is likely to have the mercedes on video as they passed it and this will also add some creditability to his defence. Also the start of the M1 has many roadside traffic cameras on it and these should show the mercedes alongside him on the slip road. I would make a quick request to get these videos as if it is let too long they may get deleted.
cjm99
I believe Jack Straw's chaufer (a police man) said almost exactly this. and was aquitted.
radds
Ok, so what would be a sensible next step - wait for summons? I have already been read my rights etc whilst sitting in the policecar.

Something that may help me here is that I said 'thank goodness you're here when I excited my vehicle', I was terrified at that point.
DW190
QUOTE (cjm99)
I believe Jack Straw's chaufer (a police man) said almost exactly this. and was aquitted.

Does anybody know if he entered a guilty plea and was aquitted on the strength of mitigation or a not guilty plea and was aquitted on the on the strehgth of his evidence of being under threat.
radds
I appreciate your help with this, I know I broke the law - not disputing that, its why I felt I had to that gets me. icon_cry.gif
matt1133
QUOTE
I believe Jack Straw's chaufer (a police man) said almost exactly this. and was aquitted.


I remember Alex Ferguson said he had to use the toilet as an excuse for speeding along the hard shoulder of the motorway in a traffic jam, and was let off.

If the vid clearly shows you being followed/chased aggressively and what you say is true, then i would think that is a good defence, i would use it if i were in your position
radds
Basically the video shows me going through two junctions ahead of the police car. He doesn't have his lights on, keeps pace with me, and gets closer and closer toward the end of the clip.

This is when I attempt my undertaking idiocy, and this even looks like a desperate move on the video (the car in the middle lane taps his brakes), I honestly thought the car behind was the Mercedes with the idiots on board, but the car was a BMW. Lights looked the same to me - zeons. rolleyes.gif
viper
You say they filmed you over two junctions so they have you on tape for some time I imagine. You could go not guilty for dangerous driving and guilty on the speeding try and cut a deal with the prosecutor on the day explaining your circumstances. They may not be prepared to drop it if the video is good as undertaking at over 100MPH is pretty dangerous

I would try and get a copy of the traffic video ASAP and see if it helps your case in any way. If the black Merc can be seen on the video it may help and you can decide if the video is enough for the dangerous driving charge
Observer
I think you need the assistance of a good motoring lawyer.  We can help with the identification and presentation of technical defences but what will be needed here, imo, is skilled advocacy.  Nick Freeman or Robert Dobson are good places to start and whoever you end up with may recommend bringing in a barrister at trial.

It will be expensive. Do you have legal expenses cover within home insurance?
radds
No, I don't think I have legal cover - I will check tonight though, probably too late to change me thinks. rolleyes.gif
radds
Hi guys, thought this had gone away but just received a letter from the police. This was postdated the 28th July, over six months since the date of the offence.

The pack includes a statement from a police officer in which he states that he pulled me over at J2 of the same motorway, when it was beyond this point, he also claims it took him 5 miles to catch me in his 3.0 litre police car, he actually followed me closely, and I was only driving a 2.0 litre Fiat.

I'm completely dismayed - can anyone help me, I'm going to claim mitigating circumstances but don't know what else to say.

Since I was caught, I sold my car (within a month), sold my house and changed to a job where a car wasn't a necessity. I'm now living in a scummy flat in London so I can use the tube, worse off because i'm now renting and the prices are higher than St Albans. Does any of this help me?
radds
Oh yes, charge is now driving without due care.
Broadsword
what was the date that the summons was actually sworn out
radds
Date caught - 26th Jan
Court Details - 16th Jun
Received - 28th July
progbloke
So you hear absolutely sweet FA for six months and then out of the blue they decide to send out the summons which they've been sitting on for six weeks? rolleyes.gif
Philm
you could possibly consider a defence of duress it worked for poshtaxi see this thread[forum link]

but wait for some more experienced people to give you their opinion too

Phil
radds
Many thanks, I'm not sure whether to plea guilty or not at the present time, or whether to attend court?

So far I've redrafted an account of what happened that night, and will shortly be including road names etc. As you can imagine, I didn't sleep that well last night - and looking at the account I was advised to write after the event (by forum members) the police account differs from my own, the top speed and the charge (dangerous driving was mentioned at the time).

I've requested that my old employer write a letter to state that driving was necessary as part of my employment, and that during the past three years I have driven my own car (and pool cars) without complaint or incident.

The only downside to all this, I was previously done for 3 points and 97mph in the Welsh Rally M4 camera debarcle in 2003.

Your help is really appreciated. Think a donation is in the offing. smile.gif
Philm
if you decide that the duress angle might be a good way to go drop me a pm and I'll get hold of poshtaxi and find out what cases he quoted for you so you can quote them too
radds
Ok, here's the plan:

I'm going to claim duress and 'not' guilty against the charge of 'driving without due care'. I was in fear for my life, I had reason for being worried and I was followed by police for 5 miles before they pulled me over - video evidence will prove I became more desperate as the tape goes on...in an attempt to get away from a car I honestly thought was out to get me. I undertook a car in order to get away just before being pulled over, and the police state that the driver took avoiding action as I apparantly swerved across the road in front of him to avoid an accident - the truth, and in video evidence is that the other driver only tapped his brakes (normal reaction) and that I was in such control of the situation that I even indicated in and then back out again - I did not swerve!

I will also state that I was in no rush to get home, and had no one in the car to show-off to - that night I had attended the comedy store with my girlfriend and was extremely relaxed and minding my own business before the confrontation with another car, the one I wrongly assumed was beside/behind me as I joined the M1.

I have a police statement from the scene in which I state 'I thought they were out to get me' and that I described the car as a 'black mercedes' (coupe model IIRC). In fact, one of my first lines to the officer was 'thank god its you' - not a typical reaction to being pulled over I think you'd agree.

Can anyone offer me a place to start putting together my case, I'm going to donate heavily to this site should I be proved innocent/not guilty - I need to know things like whether to attend court, what evidence to take, etc etc. smile.gif
radds
Anyone, really could use some advice before next week. smile.gif
hilljd00
Dont say gansters, say boy racers who try and intimidate people into racing.

As I know for a fact they do this, as they do it to me all the time, and they also do it to other boy racers... They will go up their ass as a sign they want to race and when the car in front speeds up they will too.

I believe you might be able to find evidence for this, or even ask local police, as im sure its a well known fact.
Broadsword
I've sent you a little PM

Also run this by your solicitor, I'm trying to quote from memory so it won't be word perfect but here goes icon_redface.gif  It's called "Causation"

"If a person creates in another mans mind an immediate sense of danger which causes that person to try and escape and in doing so he injures himself, the person who created such a state of mind is responsible for any injuries that occur"

Cannot remember the "R V bit" but the 'gist' of the judgement could relate to your case.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.