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haytch
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: -
Date of the NIP: -
Date you received the NIP: -
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A454 WALSALL ROAD OPP DILKE ROD TWDS WALSALL
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First Class
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -
NIP received and sent back with part A details completed, signed and dated part 2 but filled in no details. Reasons for this (wrong I now know) being I believed I was not driving at this time, I was at work.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 27 May 2009 19:11:49 +0100

Hi everyone, after sending back the NIP in November I heard nothing more until I received a court summons last week for the speeding offence and failing to provide driver details. Had I researched the NIP in the first place and perhaps checked out this site I would have owned up to the offence.

The original reason for not putting my hands up being that I believed I was not driving at the time but have since ascertained that my reasons for thinking so were not right (Clocks changed, was late for work, 9-5 job, flashed at 9.41) I now realise that regardless of my reasons, I was the only person driving my car on that particular day.

I'm aware that I am a complete idiot, but would appreciate any advice on my case. I do not want to attend court and intend on pleading guilty by post for the speeding but am unsure on the S172 charge. Obviously I am guilty of failing to comply in the first instance but if I admit to the speeding is that not compliance? Also, is it likely I will be charged of both?

Have read up a lot on these forums and found so much helpful information. However, I have absolutely no knowledge of the judicial system and whilst I have cracked some terms and myths and such, I am clueless. (Goes without saying given the situation I have put myself in)

Thanks.
nemo
What speed has been alleged ?
haytch
40 in a 30

Also, I have 3 points also for speeding which become inactive at the end of june. My summons is for the beginning of June...not sure how the totting up system would apply with the offence being in October?

Thanks!
nemo
Sorry, should have asked this before - what information did you provide on the s.172 form, and what information did you fail to provide ?
haytch
I signed and dated Part 2 - If you were not the driver at the time of the alleged offence etc but filled in nothing else apart from the top part - name, phone number, dob. So I failed to provide driver details.

On the summons this has a date bracket, presumably relating to the NIP? Not sure if this makes any difference or not.
nemo
QUOTE (haytch @ Wed, 27 May 2009 - 21:21) *
I signed and dated Part 2 - If you were not the driver at the time of the alleged offence etc but filled in nothing else apart from the top part - name, phone number, dob.

On the face of it, it would appear that you are guilty of the offence of failing to provide driver details. Conviction for this offence would see the imposition of 6 penalty points plus a fine of maybe £300-£400.

Whilst the absence of admissible evidence of driver identity would suggest that a speeding prosecution would be bound to fail, conviction for this alleged offence (40mph in a 30mph limit) should see no more than 3 points imposed along with a 'lowish' fine (not forgetting costs and the mandatory £15 Victim Support Surcharge - payable by all convicted offenders who are fined by the courts).

Accordingly, it may be in your interest to try and strike a deal with the CPS ie they agree to drop the FTF charge in return for your guilty plea for the alleged speeding offence). To this end, you might consider attending the court on the date specified on the summons and getting to speak with the CPS prosecutor before you enter your pleas.

QUOTE (haytch @ Wed, 27 May 2009 - 21:21) *
On the summons this has a date bracket, presumably relating to the NIP?

The range refers to the dates within which it is alleged that you failed to provide the driver details.

QUOTE (haytch @ Wed, 27 May 2009 - 20:58) *
Also, I have 3 points also for speeding which become inactive at the end of june. My summons is for the beginning of June...not sure how the totting up system would apply with the offence being in October?

'Totting' refers to 12 or more penalty points accumulated in any 3 year period (from date of offence) which results in the offender facing a ban of a minimum of 6 months.

Unless you first passed a driving test within 2 years of the date of the alleged offence, then an additional 3 (or 6) points will not see a ban imposed or your licence revoked.
haytch
Thanks ever so much for your help!

My main concern is collecting 9 points from both offences on top of the 3 which will be active until 19 days after the hearing. Am working on a letter of mitigation but really wanted to avoid going to court as I am absolutely petrified icon_redface.gif ! I understand that it may put me in a better light, if that's even possible? ! !

Thanks again for shedding some light on the matter!
nemo
QUOTE (haytch @ Wed, 27 May 2009 - 22:03) *
My main concern is collecting 9 points from both offences on top of the 3 which will be active until 19 days after the hearing.

Whilst it is theoretically possible to be convicted of both alleged offences, I suspect that it would take a fairly major gaff on your part to make that happen.

And for the purposes of totting, the relevant dates for penalty points are those of the alleged offences, not the date of conviction or acceptance of a fixed penalty.

QUOTE (haytch @ Wed, 27 May 2009 - 22:03) *
Am working on a letter of mitigation but really wanted to avoid going to court as I am absolutely petrified icon_redface.gif !

If you have a spare hour or two during the week, why not pop along to your local magistrates' court and observe a few cases. It will give you a good idea of what goes on and will no doubt make you realise that its not as daunting a place as many people often perceive it to be.
The Rookie
If you don't go to court you are faced with 2 possibilities
1/ Plead guilty to speeding, NG to S172, they may drop the S172 but if they don't your looking at a totting ban
2/ Plead guilty to S172 and NG to speeding, 6 points and a large fine.

If you do decide to attend you can ask the CPS if they will 'accept' a guilty for speeding as long as they drop the S172, you can explain why it happened if you like, although 'plea bargaining' doesn't have the legal status it does in the US, they nearly always accept.

Your mitigation would have been covered by you excercising 'reasonable dillignece' as required by law, so I wouldn't waste any time with it, it won't help!

Simon

If you don't go to court you are faced with 2 possibilities
1/ Plead guilty to speeding, NG to S172, they may drop the S172 but if they don't your looking at a totting ban
2/ Plead guilty to S172 and NG to speeding, 6 points and a large fine.

If you do decide to attend you can ask the CPS if they will 'accept' a guilty for speeding as long as they drop the S172, you can explain why it happened if you like, although 'plea bargaining' doesn't have the legal status it does in the US, they nearly always accept.

Your mitigation would have been covered by you excercising 'reasonable dillignece' as required by law, so I wouldn't waste any time with it, it won't help!

Simon
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