Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: [NIP Wizard] NIP vs "initial Notice"
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
jagman
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - February 2009
Date of the NIP: - 43 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 46 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M6 Tebay Services Travelling South (S), NY60368 06557
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Clocked, I suspect, by a mobile camera van on a bridge travelling south from Scotland early on a Sunday afternoon. Not sure who was driving as my wife and I swapped over at some point in the Lake District. Not a lot more to say.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

The NIP Wizard doesn't allow the full story to be told - read on.

The first NIP received was addressed to a Mr Ian Gavlt, albeit to the correct address and quoting the correct registration number - I suspect this was due to the dealer who I bought the car from in July of the previous year mis-spelling my name. A potentially complicating factor is that until I had received this NIP I hadn't realised that I hadn't received a new log book from DVLA yet. It was only then that I sent the slip the dealer had left me with. Anyway, on 29/4/09 I emailed the Cumbria Safety Camera Partnership stating that, mis-spelling aside, I was the registered keeper but that the NIP was out of time and therefore invalid and asking them to foward it to the appropriate person if it wasn't them.

Shortly after, 7/5/09, I received a letter from Cumbria Constabulary stating that "The Notice has to be served within 14 days. The service of the notice can be by 1st Class Post and once posted by us, is deemed served. This ruling only applies to the service of the initial Notice, if another person has nominated you then this ruling doeas not apply. Furthermore, the onus is on us to prove that it was served within 14 days, which we are able to do. The Notice you are in receipt of is not the initial Notice, therefore the 14 day time limit does not apply, the Notice is valid." This was accompanied by another NIP addressed correctly and dated 07/05/09.

I find this astonishing, how can they prove that the initial Notice was served within 14 days if it was only sent 1st class? Can I request that they tell me who nominated me for the issuance of the subsequent Notice?

Also the Section 172 form that they sent with the NIP does not contain a section which allows me to say that I was the registered keeper and give a list of possible drivers.

Can somebody offer me advice as to what I should do next? This set of circumstances doesn't seem to be covered in any other forums.
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 27 May 2009 15:16:40 +0100
The Rookie
The can prove service as proof of posting is proof of service unless the opposite can be proved, as the recipient (the previous reg keeper) responded, then its fair to say it arrived!

That is the law, and although Scum-bria frequently spout rubbish, in this case (for the first time ever?) they are right.

What you have is not strictly a NIP (despite what it says on it) but an S172 request to name the driver, which you must do.

If you cannot at any point name the driver the late NIP (if it were) would be of no consequance anyway, as it stands you are into 'reasonable dilligence' in trying to ID the driver, always harder when both pros[ective drivers are in the car, so asking for photo's to help with that is your first step.

To comply with the letter of the law, write to them (a letter) before the end of the 28 days allowed from service of the FIRST request giving as much info as you can (naming and giving details for both possible drivers) and tell them what else your doing to try and ID the driver (checking phone bills and card receipts for example).

Simon
Hotel Oscar 87
[EDIT: Wouldn't want to give too much away]
jeffreyarcher
Far be it for me to say, but there aren't too many service areas (where you could have changed over) on the M6 southbound in Cumbria.
jobo
QUOTE (jeffreyarcher @ Wed, 27 May 2009 - 23:39) *
Far be it for me to say, but there aren't too many service areas (where you could have changed over) on the M6 southbound in Cumbria.


no. but he never mentioned services, there's lots of junctions they could have changed over at
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.