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trancedj
Hi all, heard about this forum from a friend and was hoping for some advice. I was travelling home from work the other day stopped at petrol to have an unmarked car put his lights on and follow me in. I stopped car and got out. I was asked to sit the back of the police car while the officers explain they had been following me for a while and had my average speed to be 101mph on the in car video system. It was also pointed out that I performed a overtake on the video with out indicating. I was then issued a verbal warning told I would received a summons to court and asked if I understood this, not knowing any different I said yes. Now I am waiting worrying as I need my licence for work I live in a very rural community with no direct bus links and work late in the evenings so would have no way home. Am I likely to be charged with dangerous driving or just for speeding? Only speeding was mentioned to me by the police.
Also I believe they were following me for a while before they had me on camera, as the small section of video they shown me was the end of the journey. Can they use other evidence to corroborate their argument? I will put more details on here as soon as I receive my (NIP).

When the officer told me I was travelling 101mph I replied with I accept I was travelling fast however I thought I didn’t pass 95mph (which I believe to be true) and I asked if there machine was calibrated and how it worked. I was told yes and given a very quick explanation. In regards to my speed they said it was such a small difference between the speed I admit to and the speed they had me at that it wouldn’t matter, is this the case is there method of calculating my speed 100% accurate? I could swear I didn’t go over 95mph!! Should I argue this?

I should just add the road condition and weather were good and it was at 9.15pm so road was clear apart from a couple of other vehicles can this be used in my favour? I have been driving 4 years now and have no points. I am planning to go and plead guilty in person and hope for a short ban would this be likely and is there any way I can help reach this outcome?



Thanks in advance
srg
QUOTE (trancedj @ Mon, 25 May 2009 - 16:08) *
I was then issued a verbal warning told I would received a summons to court and asked if I understood this, not knowing any different I said yes.


It isn't a problem that you said yes to this.

QUOTE (trancedj @ Mon, 25 May 2009 - 16:08) *
Also I believe they were following me for a while before they had me on camera, as the small section of video they shown me was the end of the journey. Can they use other evidence to corroborate their argument? I think I may have used a chevroned area for an over take earlier in the journey. Is it likely they will be able to use this against me? I will put more details on here as soon as I receive my (NIP).


You are unlikely to get an NIP - the summons is probably the next thing you will get (they have up to 6 months from the date of the offence to lay the information before the court, so you're likely to get your summons in the next few months).

Was the policeman on his own in their car?

The evidence will be their statement of what happened, the video of the events and the fact you admitted speeding. More than enough evidence for a conviction.

QUOTE (trancedj @ Mon, 25 May 2009 - 16:08) *
I could swear I didn’t go over 95mph!! Should I argue this?


Not sure - others will advise whether there is likely to be benefit in doing this.
nemo
QUOTE (trancedj @ Mon, 25 May 2009 - 16:08) *
Am I likely to be charged with dangerous driving or just for speeding?

To proceed an allegation of dangerous driving requires a NIP (verbal or postal) to be served which specifies that alleged offence. If no mention was made of DD, assuming there will be no follow up NIP by post, and accepting that the police do not subsequently 'remember' serving a verbal NIP for DD, then you need worry about the alleged speeding offence only.

QUOTE (trancedj @ Mon, 25 May 2009 - 16:08) *
Also I believe they were following me for a while before they had me on camera, as the small section of video they shown me was the end of the journey. Can they use other evidence to corroborate their argument?

They don't really need any - the alleged offence was witnessed by two traffic officers, your speed would have been verified by speedometer, VASCAR or Police Pilot, and it appears that some or all of the incident has been captured on video (not that this would necessarily be relied upon by the prosecution).

QUOTE (trancedj @ Mon, 25 May 2009 - 16:08) *
I think I may have used a chevroned area for an over take earlier in the journey. Is it likely they will be able to use this against me?

Depends on how (or if) the officers saw such a manoeuvre and, if so, whether they see fit to mention it in their statements. If they do, then it could be regarded as an aggravating factor by the magistrates.

Also, depending on the layout of the chevroned area, it could have led to completely separate charges being made (in addition to the alleged speeding offence).

QUOTE (trancedj @ Mon, 25 May 2009 - 16:08) *
I will put more details on here as soon as I receive my (NIP).

You received a verbal NIP at the roadside. As such, there is no requirement for a supplementary NIP to be served by post.

It is probable that the next paperwork you receive in relation to this incident will be a summons.

QUOTE (trancedj @ Mon, 25 May 2009 - 16:08) *
In regards to my speed they said it was such a small difference between the speed I admit to and the speed they had me at that it wouldn’t matter, is this the case is there method of calculating my speed 100% accurate? I could swear I didn’t go over 95mph!! Should I argue this?

Quite possibly. Essentially, you would enter a plea of guilty to the alleged speeding offence, but you would contest the version of events as alleged by the police officers ie you accept that you were speeding, but at a speed of not more than 95mph. This is known as a Newton plea.

There are plenty of cases on these boards where Newton pleas / Newton Hearings are discussed. Whilst waiting for the inevitable summons to be served, your time might be well spent using the search facility and reading through some similar cases.

trancedj
Thanks for your response

No there were 2 officers in car.
trancedj
thanks nemo will do
trancedj
Have received a court summons through the post this morning stating that i have being charged with exceeding the 60 mph speed limit on a single carriageway. Included is a witness statement saying the recorded speed was 101 mph taken over a distance of 0.56 miles. It says on the statement that it was dry bright and clear conditions with only a light flow of traffic and that i made 2 over takes. It says that i openly admitted exceeding the speed limit but not over 95 mph. I plan to appear in person at court and plead guilty to the offense, any advice on what i should say? i am planning on representing myself. Should i keep trying to argue the speed down to 95 mph? I honestly didn't think i was traveling over this speed but would i be able to prove that against the recorded speed of 101 mph. I should add it was police pilot they used to calculate my speed and i says on the witness statement that it was all checked and working properly 15 minutes before the time of the offense.

Any help will be much appreciated.

THEGMAN
101mph can be a Magic figure for the Court. Some will proceed to Ban on its sheer weight alone, if your going for a Newton Plea (ie.lower figure 95mph) then somehow you are going to have to prove that the ocifer has used his equipment incorrectly which can prove difficult as they are all suppossedly "experts" in operating them!

Clearly you have openly admitted the Speeding in the ocifers S9 so Id expect no less than 6 points in Court. Sorry
ict_guy
QUOTE (THEGMAN @ Fri, 12 Jun 2009 - 13:48) *
101mph can be a Magic figure for the Court. Some will proceed to Ban on its sheer weight alone, if your going for a Newton Plea (ie.lower figure 95mph) then somehow you are going to have to prove that the ocifer has used his equipment incorrectly which can prove difficult as they are all suppossedly "experts" in operating them!

Clearly you have openly admitted the Speeding in the ocifers S9 so Id expect no less than 6 points in Court. Sorry


I think you may be getting confused with a 70mph limit. The OP said it was a 60mph.
desktop_demon
So you have the evidence of two officers and possibly a speedometer in the case against you.
The evidence form the police-pilot should not be admitted at trial as it does not have a type approval certificate.

The evidence of two police officers will be difficult to argue against in court and fulfils all the conditions needed in s.89(2) for corroboration. That you were speeding would seem to be accepted by all parties. The issue in dispute is the amount by which the speed limit was exceeded. I very much doubt any officer however well trained could accurately observe the difference between 95 and 101mph. So you have to show doubt on the mechanical corroborative evidence - the speedometer is the only thing that could have been used. If the speedometer was not calibrated then that would cast doubt on the accuracy of the officers opinion and the defendants evidence should be preferred.

Of course in real life "your mileage may vary".... Good luck!
ict_guy
0.56miles = 896m

95mph = 42.2m/s

101mph = 44.89m/s

Distance=speed*time

Time=distance/speed

Time1=896/42.4=21.13s

Time2=896/44.89=19.96s

TDiff=21.13-19.96=1.17s

In other words, for you to be going at 95mph, the officer would have had to out by 1.17seconds on pressing the buttons. Quite an error over 20seconds!
trancedj
I have been doing a lot of research off this wonderful site and think i am going to try and prepare a good case for mitigation and accept the speed given, i will mention that i was doing less according to my speedo but don't think i am going to try and fight it i have no knowledge of what i should say and can see me digging myself into a bigger hole!!

I drive my farther who is unable to drive, to work every morning at 4 am and collect him at 9 am he works 8.5 miles away with no other way of getting there or back so would not be able to keep the job if i was unable to drive him. This would seriously affect him as would not be able to afford to pay mortgage and bills etc. I also work evenings nearly 15 miles away, from 5 pm till 9 pm and would not be able to get home from work there are no bus even close to that time meaning i would have to leave my job as well. This would seriously affect my whole family as we would be loosing 2 incomes. I will state that i show the upmost remorse for my actions and accept full responsibility for them. I am genuinely sorry for the way i behaved on the day of the incident and want to ensure i never do anything like this again regardless of the outcome . Depending on the outcome of the case i will attend a local drive check corse and take advanced lessons to ensure that i never drive in this manner again.

Hopefully something like this along with me looking sorry and pleading guilty at the first possible offense will help me lower the punishment. If anyone can help or has ideas that i can use then they will be greatly appreciated.

bama
I suggest book the course now, don't 'wait and promise', show committment and positive action already taken.
trancedj
went to court yesterday day and after waiting for 2 hours for hearing to start i was disqualified for 42 days and fined £158. Thanks to everyone one this site for your advice it really helped. As did researching past cases and how to prepare mitigation. If it wasn't for this i don't think i would have had a clue what to expect.

Couple of last questions though: I was told in court that my driving license would be returned to me as i was disqualified for less that 56 days however i wasn't given it back, will they post it to me or will i need to go collect it? does anyone know the standard practice?

Lastly as i have been disqualified do i need to contact my insurance and cancel my policy? Current policy is due to run out a few weeks after my ban finishes. If i tell my insurance will they cancel the policy and then i lose my years no claim that i nearly have?

Thanks in advance
THEGMAN
Dont know about your license, I presume it has been sent away for physical endorsement now and will be posted back to you. Others will confirm.

As for the Insurance, I wouldnt cancel it, you still need Fire and Theft cover in case its stolen/damaged, though you need to tell them asap about the Ban. They may even increase your premium even though it expires soon. Yes, should you cancel it you will lose the No Claims Bonus for that year.

Glad its over for you and sorry about the Penalty, seemed somewhat harsh!
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