Yesterday I received in the post an enforcement notice from Civil Enforcement Ltd for parking at a retail park in Glossop.

Last Sunday evening I found myself with some time to kill before an appointment in Glossop. I saw the retail park and decided to park up there and read my newspaper and listen to the radio until it was time for appointment. At the retail park, there were several units. There was a large Tesco, but because it was Sunday and the store was shut, the local boy racers were starting to arrive there, so I figured the safest place to park was at the KFC, since it was open and a few people were around.

Foolishly It didn't occur to me to check any parking restrictions on a Sunday evening, and also, I knew that I was not going to be too long.

The letter I received states that I was parked there from 17:08 until 18:33. They say they have photographic evidence, of which I have no doubt, and I do not dispute the times that they give. I have phoned the retail park, and they say that there is a maximum stay of 75 mins - I was there for 85 mins. Because I live some distance from Glossop, I can't go back and check the signage. I'm sure it is there and clear. But I feel extremely cross in that I was sitting in the car for all of that time. If someone had come and asked me to move after 75 minutes, I would have been more than happy to.

The penalty charge is a whopping £150, reduced to £75 if I pay within 14 days. I strongly feel that I should dispute this, but am worried that a company that would send this kind of notice, would not be interested in my defence. Then, I'm worried that I'm going to have to pay the full £150.

I notice on some of these forums, the advice is to ignore. The whole thing really scares me though.

Any ideas.

dont be scared - ignore it and any follow ups

tell friends family colleagues about these scams

You have no legal obligation to pay, because you have no debt to them, and they have no legal right to pursue for the same reason. There's nothing they can do to you, they cant take you to court, they cant sent 'debt collectors' or bailiffs, they cant affect your credit rating.

Your last sentence is exactly what they rely on for people buckling up and paying. A few carefully worded threats to you and you will pay up , unless you've been here and realised its all toothless, illegal bollox.

do not pay
do not contact

Civil "penalty" charges, however they are dressed up are unenforceable rubbish. Relax and ignore!

They have ANPR cameras at the entrance and compare the numberplates for these types of bogus tickets and then print off an 'invoice' if there's more than 75 minutes between the two.
If you think about it logically they would have to confirm that your car was PARKED for all of those 75 minutes and that their cameras didn't miss you leave the carpark and re-enter ( which they can easily do - ANPR has a fairly high miss rate) or that you didn't move spaces - which you did. So you haven't actually done what they claim - you moved!
Of course all of this is completely beside the point as they can't enforce anything, but hopefully puts your mind at rest for all the work they'd have to do to actually prove you'd done it if there was actually anything legally wrong here....

Thanks for your replies.
The more I think about it, the more unreasonable the whole thing sounds. Friends, who I guess have only seen programmes on TV about this kind of thing, keep urging me to appeal and not to just ignore it, but I think I'm going to go along with all your advice on here.

I suppose I must expect more and more, increasingly threatening letters. How long is this likely to go on for I wonder?

Also - is their evidence always just a picture taken on the way into and out of the car park? There isn't anyone actually there, checking on peoples movements? I'm sure this is coincidence - but I was absolutely certain that I was followed out of the car park that evening and had a bit of a hunch that I was being watched. I'd put it out of my mind, but of course since I received this letter, I've been thinking about it again.

Evidence is not the main issue. If they had an 85 minute video in high definition with Dolby Surround Sound, it wouldn't make the charge enforceable.

You're giving this far too much attention. It's a scam - you'll just receive 5 or 6 letters before they give up and go away. No chance of court.



There is no appeals process. It's a PRIVATE COMPANY. They're not going to turn down profit by allowing 'appeals'. Appeal and you'll just get a templated 'appeal rejected' letter back.

The appeal thing is merely to make it sound like their unenforceable tat has some credence. The scam revolves around:

• making their paperwork look and sound like something official. It's merely an invoice.
• encouraging you to contact them so they can weigh up their victim. The fact you're 'appealing' demonstrates you don't get the scam and it enables them to put you on the hooked fish pile. Grandma appealing will get bombarded by letters because she's shown she'll likely to cave in and pay.
• general ignorance regarding the court system and CCJs. Every adult should know about how the county court system works.
• general ignorance regarding penalties and the fact their charge is not enforceable
• general ignorance about debt collectors. They are merely private companies who write letters and have no powers. They are not bailiffs. They are often the private parking company themselves, just using differently headed paper. Anyone who rents and has moved house will often experience having to wade through debt collection letters in the hallway from the previous tenants!

you COULD ring up and appeal,

you, can I appeal,

them, err, no, credit card number please,

Pictures are pretty poor evidence if evidence at all. And on their own they do not identify anyone.
As a simple exercise to show this all you have to do is name these people
http://www.123rf.com/photo_4208256.html

see the problem ?

ANPR just used as part of the scam. Plus people like Excel also own an ANPR company so they can siphone mor more money from the scam. Plus people fall for it because of speed cameras etc.

Its a mail scam.

Do NOT pay them
Do NOT contact them - thats exactly what they want you to do.
Never post up on any forum details of who was driving.
Do NOT worry.
Get on with your life

All you have is an unenforceable invoice. read the PPC FAQ
forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autocom=ibwiki&cmd=article&id=56
and some of the many threads here about PPCs.

It is a Con. the PPCs know how their Con works and they know how it
fails. So do we

There is NO need to worry at all.
Just read the threads here and try and find a case where it is has ended
badly for one of our advised 'PPC victim' posters who ignored the PPC..
When you get fed up looking for one the reality of the situation and the
strength of your position will sink in.

Once you have your head around it tell ALL your friends about this Con and
how to handle it.

You will very likely get a series of letters full of misleading bluff and bow
locks. just keep them in the drawer. They are all just landfiill, let the PPC
waste its money sending them.

To make it go away do nothing and they will move onto other fish.
Contact them and you get on the hooked fish list and they will pester you.

If you want to do something about it (and this IS a fight back forum)
then send a photocopy of each and every piece of paper you get from them to
local Trading Standards along with a stiff letter of complaint.

If you want to do more wait for the first bow locks letter you get - they
will have spent 2.50 at the DVLA to get the Registered Keeper's details ( )
write to the DVLA and ask for a copy of the request made by the PPC and the
backup evidence of contract with the landowner (see form V888/2
on the DVLA website).

Then write to the landowner complaining about their
part in this pursuit of unenforceable scam 'debts'. And complain to the ICO.

How far you fight back is up to you but the more that do it the better IMV.

these bastards are getting very greedy, £150, the hit rate must be down, well heed the advice and there another "miss" for them to chew over.

IGNORE
IGNORE
IGNORE

Edit......duplicated