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chop1
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - April 2009
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - cumwhinton b6263
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Recorded
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - it is a company vehicle
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - on the 30/4/09 i was cught speeding on the b6263 into cumwhinton, the road goes from a 60mph to a 30mph and as like any other driver took my foot off the gas and started to slow down, as i came into the town an officer walked out from behind a parked car and waved me over to one side, he showed me he caught me doing 53mph in a 30mph zone, he issued me with a ticket a fixed penalty 3 points and 60 pound fine, later on that day he rang me and said that he had made a mistake and he should not have gave me a ticket and to ignore it and wait for summons to court, however i dont agree, i accept he caught me speeding but he was hiding from view, his police car was down another road and there were no speed camera warning signs up, also the was the road is as i came over a brow he could not have seen me and basically pointed the radar gun at me to try and get me without witnessing me speed prior, the officer has made a mistake and i think i should just have the fixed penalty and nothing more, i also have had a clean licence since i started driving 7 years ago and im my job i travel over 40,000 miles a year so it is pretty clear im not the type to usually do these speeds, please help, anyone know a likely punishment

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:48:10 +0100
The Rookie
First things first, it was almost certainly a laser device not radar, although some forces still use radar. There is no requirement for signage or anything else, it is not a defence/bar to prosecution, the officer should be visible merely for his safety, so if he's behind a parked car, and your unliley to hit (or see him whatever he's wearing) its not a defence.

If he offered you a fixed penalty he cannot now withdraw it, their is clear case law on that, if your mindfull to accept you should do so, if they refuse keep it as evidence for when you get to court when you should then get the same penalty applied, even if you follow what he said and don't try to accept you could still try this tact in court.

Did he show you the device reading at all, did it show just speed or range as well, did he make any notes on any paperwork giving any info?

Was the 30 limit under a system of street lighting, if so the limit almost certainly starts (legally) at the first light, not wherever they chose to put a 30 sign.

Simon
chop1
on the paprwork it just says speeding in a 30mph 53mph radar, he did show the the device and it said 53, he caught me in the morning and im not sure it if the road as any street lighting as it was light, i also had a nip throught the post and i have produced my licence and insurance, what do i do now?

mr2
Wash and post all paperwork you have please.

chop1
sorry pal, what do you mean?

lee
captain swoop
remove anything that can identify you or your case from the picture
chop1
sorry, im new to all this chat, is it just a case of waiting for a summons? im crapping my pants, i really need to keep my licence points to a min, ive been made redundant from the previous company now and anything more that 3 points probs means no one will employ me

cheers
chop1
anyone have any advice that can help me?
mr2
IMO If you're still within the allowed time frame then accept the fixed penalty - You accept you were high 40s after all! Your insurance won't be affected much if at all and it avoids wasting days of your life going to court. Plus you've still got 9 points left before a totting up ban.

BTW how did the copper get your number to call you - phone book?
chop1
thanks for the reply

i was told tho that if i sent my licence off and 60 quid it would just come straight back at me anyway followed by a summons cause it wont process through there system
mr2
Who told you that? It may be worth a go at sending it off anyway - send it recorded for sure if you do. (photocopy the fixed offer first)

Simon the Rookie says there is case law to show that the fixed offer cannot be withdrawn. AFAIK he knows what he's talking about.
chop1
cumbrian ticketing office told me when i rang them, apparently there is a system in place and as i was 3mph over the theshold for the fixed penalty i will not be processed, dont know how true this is tho! where can i find this case law that shows that a fixed offer cannot be withdrawn?

cheers
mr2
Ask the Rookie! Or perform a search of this site using 'my assistant'
nemo
IMO, you should send the scammers all required paperwork (licence, cheque, FPN slip etc) to ensure your strict compliance with the terms of the Fixed Penalty Notice. The documents should be sent by Royal Mail Special Delivery - and sent tomorrow.

I'd also be inclined to attach to a copy of their letter a letter of your own in which you bring to their attention the following legislation (my emphasis):

QUOTE (s.78 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988)
78. General restriction on proceedings.—

(1) Proceedings shall not be brought against any person for the offence to which a fixed penalty notice relates until the end of the suspended enforcement
period.

(2) Proceedings shall not be brought against any person for the offence to which a fixed penalty notice relates if the fixed penalty is paid in accordance with this Part of this Act before the end of the suspended enforcement period.

and

QUOTE (s.57 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988)
57. Endorsement of licences without hearings.

(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, where a person (referred to in this section as “the licence holder”) has surrendered his licence and its counterpart to a constable or authorised person on the occasion when he was given a fixed penalty notice under section 54 of this Act, the counterpart of his licence may be endorsed in accordance with this section without any order of a court.

(2) The counterpart of a person’s licence may not be endorsed under this section if at the end of the suspended enforcement period—

(a) he has given notice, in the manner specified in the fixed penalty notice, requesting a hearing in respect of the offence to which the fixed penalty notice relates, and
(b) the fixed penalty has not been paid in accordance with this Part of this Act.

(3) On the payment of the fixed penalty before the end of the suspended enforcement period, the fixed penalty clerk must endorse the relevant particulars on the counterpart of the licence and return it together with the licence to the licence holder.

(4) Where any sum determined by reference to the fixed penalty is registered under section 71 of this Act for enforcement against the licence holder as a fine, the fixed penalty clerk must endorse the relevant particulars on the counterpart of the licence and return it together with the licence to the licence holder—

(a) if he is himself the clerk who registers that sum, on the registration of that sum, and
(b) in any other case, on being notified of the registration by the clerk who registers that sum.

(5) References in this section to the relevant particulars are to—

(a) particulars of the offence, including the date when it was committed, and
(b) the number of penalty points to be attributed to the offence.

(6) On endorsing the counterpart of a person’s licence under this section the fixed penalty clerk must send notice of the endorsement and of the particulars endorsed to the Secretary of State.

(7) Subsections (3) and (4) above are subject to section 2(4)(a) of and paragraph 7(4)(a) of Schedule 1 to the Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995; and the fixed penalty clerk need not comply with subsection (6) above in a case where he sends a person’s licence and its counterpart to the Secretary of State under section 2(4)(b) of or paragraph 7(4)(b) of Schedule 1 to that Act.
The Rookie
There are 2 case laws, Eviston and H V Guildford youth court, that additionally to what Nemo has pointed out is the statute, determine that a course of action, once offered to an accused cannot be withdrawn, in the above cases it referred to a halt being put on proceedings, but the text is clear that it applies to ANY case where a course of action is offered (such as an FPN) and then the 'system' tries to reverse that decision.

In your case, while not necesary, it be help you to have tried and been refused acceptance of the FPN rather than to not try at all.

The FPN has been written and given too you, they want to change their mind, well tough, the law says they can't, if they drag it to summons you would have grounds for making sure you only get penalised the FPN amount rather than the tougher penalty you otherwise face.

Additionally I would refer you to the comments in my first post where you may have grounds for a complete niot guilty result, although you'll have to get a move on as if you try to accept the FPN (and they don't stop it) you've got less than 28 days!

Simon
andy_foster
They can only withdraw a fixed penalty notice if you have 9 or more current points.

Did you surrender your licence to the occifer at the side of the road?
chop1
no i didnt surrender my licence, why would that matter?

regards

lee
andy_foster
In that case, you presumably have not received a Fixed Penalty Notice, but a notice informing you that if you surrender your licence at a police station within 7 days, you will be given a Fixed Penalty Notice.

See s. 54 RTOA 1988

In the great scheme of things, this should be of little consequence, but will mean that the procedure to be followed will be slightly different than for an actual FPN.
Whilst they cannot lawful renege on the [promise of a] Fixed Penalty Notice, if you do not follow the requirements, you won't get a second chance, and will find it much harder to defend a subsequent prosecution if they do dig their heels in.
chop1
all i recieved was a what believe to be a fpn, a yellow strip that the offer gave to me in his car, i was told to ignore this though by the officer and a couple of days after he sent me a nip, i wasnt told very clear anything to be honest, was told by the officer to produce and not surrender my licence but then was told by the ticketing office not to do anything? i really dont understand whats going on at all, im speaking to the officer today anyway and ill be asking him a few questions from what all you kind people have given me advice on and see what he says!
The Rookie
Aside from what he says, make sure you attempt to accept the FPN, and if they decline get them to put it in writing!

Simon
chop1
hey guys thanks for all your help, i spoke with the coper and went through all the bits with him breaking the law by withdrawing the ticket and he decided to just allow me to send a cheque and just have 3 points like in the agreed FPN

cheers again guys

lee
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