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stressedoutmum
My daughter has the sixty pound fine and 3 points offer (75-77 road traffic offenders act 1988, auto camera), we are now fast approaching day 28 you must respond by and we are really unsure of what she should do, any guidance would be very much appreciated. This is what happend:-

She was approaching a junction with traffic lights with a van in front of her, the van goes through on green, she starts to go through on green, her car is half accross the line and on the pedestrian crossing when the van that is turning left stops with the rear of the van partially blocking her way. In that split second she decides because another car is close behind her and she is on the crossing that the safest option is to manouver around the van, she does this and as she is crossing the junction the light changes to red and the camera takes the picture. She never stopped totaly but was slowed considerably.

She feels she did the right thing but the paperwork does not deal in grey areas, it has been suggested to her that as a camera offence they send out autimatically and that she should write in with circumstances, is now the right time to do this. As a young driver on a low income (disabled) she can not afford the additional insurance costs but really needs the car.

Please help if you can.
Hotel Oscar 87
On the basis of your post I assume that your daughter has received a conditional offer of fixed penalty from the PF. I also assume that your daughter is being pursued for failing to stop at a red light.

As far as this is concerned the offence is committed when any part of her vehicle passed beyond the white line when the light was at red and this must have happened (whether it was actually the front wheels or the rear ones) for the piezo-sensors in the road surface to have activated the camera. I appreciate what your daughter has said but the standard delay between amber and red of 3 seconds also has to be factored in and given the description, as you have relayed it, I can't see a viable defence.

The offered penalty and more particularly the 3 points is unlikely to have a serious impact, if any, on your daughter's insurance but if you are concerned about this try a few dummy quotes on one of the multi-insurer sites.
ford poplar
Did the van indicate a left turn prior to the lights?
How close was the vehicle behind? Can it be seen on the photo?
Red light cases are difficult to defend because of the offence definition
IMO accepting CoFP would be least expensive option overall
As you say, cameras are black & white.
The Rookie
As has been said, your daughters actions almost certainly don't match what actually happened, Red Light Cams are very reliable, she almost certainly didn't go through on green, and while the vans manouver may have distracted her from the changing lights, its not a defence to the charge.

Worth writing (if there is time and assuming you haven't responded to the NIP and now got a CoFP - you don't make it clear) and asking for "photo's to help confirm the drivers ID" (not proof or evidence - your not entitled to that), but I suspect they will clearly show your daughter crossing the stopline with the lights red.

Simon
stressedoutmum
Thanks for the input.

I will pass your comments on and we may ask for the photo evidence to see what it shows, she has admitted being the driver because that was never in question. I know they are not legally required to supply photos but I cannot see any harm in asking!
The Rookie
QUOTE (stressedoutmum @ Wed, 20 May 2009 - 19:25) *
I will pass your comments on and we may ask for the photo evidence to see what it shows,

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 20 May 2009 - 14:58) *
Worth writing (if there is time and assuming you haven't responded to the NIP and now got a CoFP - you don't make it clear) and asking for "photo's to help confirm the drivers ID" (not proof or evidence - your not entitled to that),


Please read what I suggested AGAIN.

Simon
stressedoutmum
Hi Simon

She has replied to the NIP and I did read your reply about that but I also got legal advice and they suggested asking for the photos, they are not required to send them but apparently some do if you ask.

This junction is notorios and other people have challenged red light tickets and won, my daughter insists that she was past the light on the junction when the van made the emergency stop and the lights went red. However it seems unlikely that the photos show this, if they did why would they prosecute, anyway she is not well enough to cope with the stress so she will probably have to pay.

My only concern is they will refuse the photos and then force her to go to court because she will be over the deadline for accepting the fixed penalty and 3 points.

Thanks again for all your help, I don't know how any of us coped before online forums!
captain swoop
I think the point was you refered to asking for
QUOTE
the photo evidence

What you should ask for is photo's to help confirm the drivers ID.
The Rookie
And the point has been clarified now that she has already ID'd the driver making your suggestion somewaht superfluous I think?

Simon
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