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trucker
I work for an agency who find me work with a number of companies. Its quite common to drive for 3 or 4 companies in any one week.

I got a NIP for speeding around 3 months after the alleged offence, but couldn’t remember which vehicle I was driving nor have any records. So I wrote to the police saying can they please forward any photos to help confirm if it was myself who was driving as this company has 100’s vehicles in the area and could easily been somebody else.

They replied saying identification was not possible by the photo but I still had a legal duty to identify the driver. And silly me thought only the registered keeper/owner had a legal duty to identify the driver and thought it was nothing to do with me any more as I was already the nominated driver.

Anyway I ignored the letter thinking they would follow their investigation with the company who owns the vehicle. Another mistake, I have now received a summons for my first hearing for ‘Person other than keeper failing to identify the driver’.

They included a witness statement with the summons from an Admin Clerk at the police ticket office. Most of this describes how they got DVLA’s records etc and who they sent the NIP to etc. They also included a copy of the first NIP which somebody nominated me as the driver and also copies of my letter which I sent them. However what’s interesting is it wasn’t the company who owns the vehicle that filled this in, it was my agency. My agency has no connection whatsoever with the vehicle. They don’t decide who drives which vehicle nor keep a record of who drives nor do they need to.   So obviously the company who owns the vehicle knew the driver was employed by my agency but didn’t know who, which is the only explanation for a NIP going to my agency.

Also the witness statement by the admin clerk describes a NIP was sent to the company who owns the vehicle and as a result of information subsequently received a NIP was sent to myself. It doesn’t describe the NIP going to my agency. Is this little flaw in the witness statement worth anything?

I no longer work for or have any contact left with either the agency or the company who owns the vehicle.

Also would love to hear from anybody with similar experience and what my chances are in court. I’m planning to defend myself using I believe paragraph 4 of section 172 of the Road Traffic Act as I did not have the information which was in my power to give.

4) A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was

My first hearing is 3rd Feb. I’ll post the results.
andy_foster
QUOTE (trucker)
Anyway I ignored the letter thinking they would follow their investigation with the company who owns the vehicle. Another mistake, I have now received a summons for my first hearing for ‘Person other than keeper failing to identify the driver’.

QUOTE (trucker)
Also would love to hear from anybody with similar experience and what my chances are in court. I’m planning to defend myself using I believe paragraph 4 of section 172 of the Road Traffic Act as I did not have the information which was in my power to give.

4) A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was

My first hearing is 3rd Feb. I’ll post the results.


Subsection (4) of Section 172 only applies to the keeper. You are accused as "person other than keeper".
As a person "other than the keeper" you are (were) required to provided information that is in your power to give. This would seem to have been satisfied by your letter.
jeffreyarcher
Essential reading, Mohindra v DPP.
cjm99
QUOTE
interesting is it wasn’t the company who owns the vehicle that filled this in, it was my agency.



How do you know this?

The copy NIP/S172 which the CPS have disclosed, that you feel was completed by your agency, was it addressed to the vehicle Reg Keeper, or addressed to your agency?

Did a member of your agency staff complete a sec 9 witness statement? (it would have been disclosed to you with the summons bundle)

DO NOT GO CONTACTING THE CPS. OR  SCAM OFFICE

You seem to be on a very solid defence in two areas, so don't spoil it!!
trucker
cjm99, yeah, the copy of the NIP i got with my summons bundle was addressed to my agency, my agency even sent me a compliment slip advising me they had received it. No witness statement by my agency staff was included in the bundle.

I have not contacted the CPS or scamoffice.
jeffreyarcher
So you did get a S172 notice in your own name, which you failed to complete; however, the one in the summons bundle is the 'upstream' one, which was addressed to, and completed by, the agency?
trucker
yeah i got a notice in my name too, but this was never sent back. I sent a leter instead saying none of the options matched as i couldn't remember who wa driving.
cjm99
truker.,

Post the exact wording of the letteer you sent to them.

As a person other than the keeper, it is for the prosecution to 'proove' that the information was in your power to give. The wording of your letter, therefore is crucial.
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (cjm99)
As a person other than the keeper, it is for the prosecution to 'proove' that the information was in your power to give. The wording of your letter, therefore is crucial.

Nonetheless, they still have to show that a S172 requirement was made and by a person 'for and on behalf of the CoP'.
Even if it could be inferred from the contents of his letter that a S172 notice to him was received, there is still nothing to show that te S172 notice was sent 'for and on behalf of a person authorised by the CoP', surely?
trucker
This is all faily new to me and i'm still trying to digest jeffreyarchers last comment. Anyway I have pasted the exact wording of the letter which i sent them below which is the only reply they have had from me.

   "This letter is in response to your notice of intended prosecution dated
    19th October 2004 with the above reference number.

     I would like to inform you that none of the statements of response    
     cover my situation. Because of the long delay in the NIP reaching me,
     I genuinely and honestly can not remember if I was the driver of  
     vehicle ******.

     I would appreciate it if you could please forward your photographic  
     evidence to me in order to confirm If I was driving."

OK, not the best letter in the world, but bearing in ming the vehicle is registered to 'Tesco Ltd'  and that none of the options match my case on the NIP is possibly enough evidence that i wasn't hiding any more info.

The response i got was that you would expect the RK to receive as can be seen below.

     "In view of the apparent difficulties regarding identification, I have
      viewed the relevant images from the speed camera but
      unfortunately there is insufficient details available to identify the
      driver.

      A copy of the photographs will be made available to you should this
      matter go to a not guilty trial at the magistrates' court.

      In the meantime, you should be aware that it remains your legal
      responsibility to identify the driver within the legal time limit
      regardless of the fact that identification is not possible from the
      photograph".

I didn't respond to this, the trial has been set for 16th May.

My other defence isn;t looking too good. 3 NIPs were issued, 1st going to tesco, the second to my agency and the 3rd to me. The one which went to my agency had my name on (which i missed before) but 'c/o' before the agencys name, not quite sure what c/o means or why a NIP even went their and not straight to my home address.
andy_foster
QUOTE (trucker)
My other defence isn;t looking too good. 3 NIPs were issued, 1st going to tesco, the second to my agency and the 3rd to me. The one which went to my agency had my name on (which i missed before) but 'c/o' before the agencys name, not quite sure what c/o means or why a NIP even went their and not straight to my home address.


"Care of" - presumably Tesco didn't have your address, and therefore supplied the address of your agency as your "last known address".
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