Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: CU11 - MS60
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
Some driver
About a month ago I was issued a FPN and a section 59/60 (Driving in a careless/inconsiderate manner).

Background :-
This happened because I pulled out of my driveway infront of a policeman (I believe to be off-duty due to him not pulling me over there and then) He returned the next night to issue the FPN and section 59/60. As I was pulling out, he was getting closer than he should have been (I claim he was speeding - He denied it outright and rudely) and as such I put my foot down (Too late to stop) and the back end stepped out (Nothing coming the other way as I had to pass some parked cars anyhow) He claims this was driver not in proper control of vehicle.
A short distance up the road I had reached the aloocated 30pmh limit, at the base of a marginal hill, however his headlights were not visible in my rear view (tailgating) and in my driver's side mirror I could see he was almost overhanging the central lines. I dislike tailgaters, so I promtly took offence. My reaction was to drop down to 2nd gear while slowing as I gently tap the brake pedal (Not to slow down, but to show my brake lights) then I accelerated quickly back up to the 30mph. he then followed me at a safe distance for another 2 miles, claiming my driving was appaling and dangerous. He informed me that I dangerously overtook on a 2 lane slip road, and then said implied it was illegal to enter a dual carriage way and proceed onto the "Fast" lane. Despite having not exceeded any speed limits or traffic violations he proceeded to try and be a **nt about everything he could claiming that I had even "Crackled" my exhaust at him, I don't have a crackly exhaust (It's more raspy) and have no idea how I would do so on purpose.



However, while we were "Talking" in his 5-o mobile, he never at any point mentioned that there would be points associated with the offenses he was charging me with - Section 59/60 and an FPN for £60 (Or so I thought). While sorting out the "producer" that comes associated with said crap, I made a point of asking the officer at the desk if there would be any points added to my license he replied "No". Bargain I thought I won't bother to contest the accusation as it's only £60 and a section 59/60 (Which I was MORE concerned with).

I paid the £60 by phone 2/3 weeks later when I managed to get through.... They don't have seem to ***king close early.!!! You'd think they WANT your money!

Having recieved my license back in the post this morning I have found 3 points on my license, so after phoning the No. on the enclosed letter from HMCS I was informed that they are unable to help me and to seek legal advice. I then started looking about the paperwork and internet for info...
I discovered that I was issued with an FPN (ENDORSABLE offense) which apparently DOES incur points. The offense code on the FPN was CU11, yet the one on my license has come up as an MS60 with no mention of the £60 quid fine.......

Now I'm really wishing I had fought this at the time as I never believed I would be getting any points.................
The 5-0 man has a statement which I have signed saying that I was "sorry for the incident" and nothing else...... The video evidence box is UNchecked


Given that it's probably too late, What are my options?
jobo
if youve pled guilty to careless, ie accepted the fixed penalty its a bit too ,late to do anything about it.

did it def say careless/ inconsiderate on the ticket ?


just to rub salt in the wound, his coming back the next day rather than writing to you should have invalidated it anyway
Black Rat
Didn't your read what you were issued with.

Think about it, what did you think they were going to do with your licence when you surrendered it?
Some driver
QUOTE (Black Rat @ Sat, 25 Apr 2009 - 15:43) *
Think about it, what did you think they were going to do with your licence when you surrendered it?


Write that I was handed out a fine, I'm sure I've seen my mates license with a fine and no points amended to it....
Surely he should have explained what he was handing out? Surely the desk clerk should have mentioned it when I asked him directly.?

The section 59/60 was issued and the box for "Driving in a careless / inconsiderate manner" was checked
The FPN states offense code "CU11" and "driver not in proper control of vehicle"

Which was only due to the fact that I had to promptly accelerated and 'drifted' a little (not snaked all the way up the road like he tried to tell me) when he was speeding......



My witness statement or whatever it would be called says nothing much more than "I was sorry for what I had done" He was MORE than unwilling to mention that he tailgated me and may have been speeding.... Hence I was unwilling to mention anything I had ACTUALLY done in a statement.

QUOTE (jobo @ Sat, 25 Apr 2009 - 15:39) *
if youve pled guilty to careless, ie accepted the fixed penalty its a bit too ,late to do anything about it.

did it def say careless/ inconsiderate on the ticket ?


just to rub salt in the wound, his coming back the next day rather than writing to you should have invalidated it anyway



With regard to the salt.... The FPN actaully has both the date of the incident (where the details of said incident are) and the date of the day he visited me (Where he signed), and the section 59/60 has the date of the actual incident.
Glacier2
They never record fines on a licence, only points.

Non endorsables are not recorded on a licence.
BaggieBoy
There isn't a national CU11 offence code (they usually end in a "0") and is probably a local force code, which is perfectly normal to be put on a FPN.
jobo
you might have all sort of arguments with the prosecution , but you went guilty, so that would seem to be the end of it
jeffreyarcher
Well, the bad news is that someone on here (Blackbird IIRC) found himself uninsurable with MS60 points (the court should have applied MS90 points in his case; he got it fixed eventually).
There are various issiues here, but the bottom line is that it is very difficult to get accepted FPNs undone.
AIUI, 'forcing' them to undo it can usually only be done by Judicial Review.
But if you're going to be unisurable, you may have to go that way.
The fact that the late issue of the FPN was ultra vires should help.
Keep an eye on the calendar, because your JR must be lodged within 3 months of the points being applied.
The S59 / 60 would also appear to be ultra vires (as careless / inconsiderate wasn't alleged on the FPN), so if you include that, that should provide a backstop (i.e. guarantee of success, and hence get your costs back) for the JR, in case you don't get the conviction overturned completely.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.