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Jayen4
O.K.....So,I have been reading all the 'clamping related stories on here (and elsewhere and given that a lot of these scammers are bordering on downright extortion and illegality,would it not be possible to set up a 'Clamp Removal Service' ??

I mean,they are using some obscure rules and regulations / laws, some of which have their basis in the middle ages (so I've read). So,would it be possible to counter their bullshit and remove their clamps without fear of prosecution ?? Sort of 'turn the tables' on them. What do you all think...is this a 'go-er' ? As far as I can see,they are trespassing on your property,to apply the clamp in the first place,are they not ?

Would the 'legal beagles' care to chip in on this ??

Did I mention that I hate clampers !??
emanresu
Will you be "Suited & Booted" like this. I understand there may be a couple of suits going free from last night's BBC Apprentice programme.
Alexis
Removing the clamps by force could be deemed criminal damage.

The police won't be interested normally, so feel free to hack at a clamp on your own vehicle.

If you're doing it as a service, the police might put a stop to it though.
dave-o
There was a vigilante called angle Grinder Man who used to do this.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/3112670.stm

He's not doing it any more though. Not sure if that's for legal reasons.
Jayen4
QUOTE (emanresu @ Thu, 23 Apr 2009 - 15:12) *
Will you be "Suited & Booted" like this. I understand there may be a couple of suits going free from last night's BBC Apprentice programme.



Ha Haaa...... No ,I don't think I'd look good dressed like that ! Wouldn't want to firighten my 'customers' would I ?? I would be much more low key ! Maybe a police style uniform with 'Anti clamping unit'' on it somewhere ?

Seriuosly though, I am trying to find a way to do this,as legally as possible. I my view,these clampers are nothing more than thugs and extortionists anyway. They are working in a 'grey area',so why can't someone on the 'other side' do the same to counter them ??

Alexis says that it may be viewed as criminal damage and that the police would put a stop to it....... If that's the case,then why do they not put a stop to the clampers in the first place ??
I notice that in a story that I read recently,when a police vehicle was clamped (crazy clamper !),the ploice went after them big time. They ended up in jail for some quite serious offences (I think it was extortion and fraud or something). When it's a member of the general public who is clamped and money being extorted from them,then the standard police line is 'It's a civil matter''. Double standards if ever I saw them !

So,I repeat.....are there any legal types out there who might like to give some constructive help on this ??
dave-o
QUOTE (Jayen4 @ Thu, 23 Apr 2009 - 17:07) *
Alexis says that it may be viewed as criminal damage and that the police would put a stop to it....... If that's the case,then why do they not put a stop to the clampers in the first place ??
I notice that in a story that I read recently,when a police vehicle was clamped (crazy clamper !),the ploice went after them big time. They ended up in jail for some quite serious offences (I think it was extortion and fraud or something). When it's a member of the general public who is clamped and money being extorted from them,then the standard police line is 'It's a civil matter''. Double standards if ever I saw them !



It's a sad reflection of many aspects of modern policing.
Alexis
QUOTE
If that's the case,then why do they not put a stop to the clampers in the first place ??


Because it's lawful to clamp and charge a release fee AS LONG as there is clear signage, fair contract terms and they're SIA licenced.

It can work, but clampers by nature tend to be cowboys and so a situation which ticks all three tends to be less common.
dave-o
QUOTE (Alexis @ Thu, 23 Apr 2009 - 17:17) *
Because it's lawful to clamp and charge a release fee AS LONG as there is clear signage, fair contract terms and they're SIA licenced.



Sadly, even if none of these conditions are met, the police are still not usually interested.
Ocelot
If you removed the clamp by deflating the tyres and didn't damage it, I don't think there's any law against removing it, no matter whose clamp it was.

If you damaged a clamp on your own car, according to teufel,
there is a clear defence in the criminal damage act that an honestly held belief (even if mistaken) that you have a right to remove the clamp by cutting it is a defence to any criminal charge

Not sure I'd want to offer a 'service' though, as you might be on shaky grounds.
Fredd
There are other ways to remove clamps than by cutting them. How do you suppose a locksmith would do it?
nemo
When my nipper got his 'ped clamped a while back, we simply dragged the bike out of the private car park onto the pavement and set about removing the rear wheel (with clamp intact).

The clampers turned up, got quite animated about what we were doing but, other than make hollow threats of calling the police or taking me to court, couldn't do anything to stop us.

Fortunately, we had taken a spare rear wheel with us so we simply returned the clamp and offered the clampers the attached original wheel as a 'gift'.

Needless to say, nothing more was heard..

Boomer
Jayen4,

If you want to set up such a "service", buy a flat-bed tow-truck with one of those car-lift cranes on it. When one of your customers gets clamped, lift their entire car (without moving the wheels or clamp) and move it to a secure (ideally indoor) location. You may wish to have a few "heavies" sitting in the truck in case the clampers return mid-job!

Then remove the clamp via legal means (which may mean temporarily removing the car wheel, suspension etc.) and return the car to its happy owner.

Meanwhile, charge the clamping company £200 per day storage for their clamp, store the clamps at some "depot" a few hundred miles from your operating patch, only allow collection between 14:00 and 16:00 hours, send the clampers intimidating letters every couple of weeks with escalating costs - and video EVERYTHING to cover yourselves!

It might just actually work wink.gif

mb
sunshine865
So I keep seeing comments in relation to signage: "Provided there are adequate and visible signs", and wonder, can you not just paint the signs out, back date you camera or whatever take images of said sign and say the signs were never visible?
uknational
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 23 Apr 2009 - 22:25) *
There are other ways to remove clamps than by cutting them. How do you suppose a locksmith would do it?


Well as it so happens, one of my hobbies is lockpicking........................

its not illegal to own a lock pick tool in the UK EXCEPT a key that has been cut in a specific way and is known as a Bump Key - theres only one use for a bump key, and unless you are a genuine locksmith, it can only be used for housebreaking, because it will open ALL locks in the world of that pattern without fail.

I have several lock picks from here - http://www.devonlocks.com/cgi-bin/cart/section/5/ there a really good company, and they sell all types.

If you want to see how quick you can open a lock with a bump key (and thus why there illegal to own) , watch this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=hr23tpWX8lM

and heres how to make one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrRxvZtmbX4...feature=related (DO NOT MAKE!!! ILLEGAL TO OWN IN THE UK!!!)

And heres a basic tutorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58E4WFBdnfo...feature=related
sunshine865
or rip the signs off the wall of course! Maybe even mail it to them if you're feeling particularly smug.
Ocelot
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 23 Apr 2009 - 22:25) *
There are other ways to remove clamps than by cutting them. How do you suppose a locksmith would do it?


QUOTE (Ocelot)
If you damaged a clamp on your own car

Jayen4
QUOTE (uknational @ Sat, 25 Apr 2009 - 21:09) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 23 Apr 2009 - 22:25) *
There are other ways to remove clamps than by cutting them. How do you suppose a locksmith would do it?


Well as it so happens, one of my hobbies is lockpicking........................

its not illegal to own a lock pick tool in the UK EXCEPT a key that has been cut in a specific way and is known as a Bump Key - theres only one use for a bump key, and unless you are a genuine locksmith, it can only be used for housebreaking, because it will open ALL locks in the world of that pattern without fail.

I have several lock picks from here - http://www.devonlocks.com/cgi-bin/cart/section/5/ there a really good company, and they sell all types.

If you want to see how quick you can open a lock with a bump key (and thus why there illegal to own) , watch this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=hr23tpWX8lM

and heres how to make one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrRxvZtmbX4...feature=related (DO NOT MAKE!!! ILLEGAL TO OWN IN THE UK!!!)

And heres a basic tutorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58E4WFBdnfo...feature=related




Ooh,you've done it now !! laugh.gif I'm impressed. That looks soo simple......Would that work on any padlock type then ?? Am I correct in thinking that all you need is a key thats got the correct number of side grooves ?

Now then,where's that spare padlock that kicking about ? wink.gif biggrin.gif

Hey....I've even thought of a name for my 'new company'.....''Contra-Clampers'' . Or is that too subtle for your average punter ?? laugh.gif
uknational
QUOTE (Jayen4 @ Sun, 26 Apr 2009 - 02:16) *
Ooh,you've done it now !! laugh.gif I'm impressed. That looks soo simple......Would that work on any padlock type then ?? Am I correct in thinking that all you need is a key thats got the correct number of side grooves ?

Now then,where's that spare padlock that kicking about ? wink.gif biggrin.gif

Hey....I've even thought of a name for my 'new company'.....''Contra-Clampers'' . Or is that too subtle for your average punter ?? laugh.gif


A bump key works on every lock with that key profile. Bear in mind with the Yale type locks (the flat 5 tumbler type door lock and padlock) theres about 30 types of key, so you'd need a bump key for each profile.

I started with a basic 5 pick set for £22, and I went round my house andtried picking the locks. Every padlock i found i could pick i threw away and put a new high security replacement on - after all, If i can pick it, it must be crap, im an amateur!

The hobby has saved me twice, once when i locked my keys in the shed (picked a tumbler padlock and got them back, 7 minutes) and then my friend locked himself out the house (raked a chinese copy yale lock open, 12 minutes).

Ive now made a vibrating raker out of an electric toothbrush for yale locks. Ive also started taken locks to pieces to understand how they work, that helps no end when you're trying to pick them.

Have a go, its hobby that you pay out once for and gets hours of amusement from for free, afterwards.

And of course, picking the lock doesnt damage it, so you can take a clamp off and theres no legitimate comeback from the gorilla knuckles watching you.

And finally, thats how you tell a good locksmith from a cowboy. The cowboy wont even attempt to pick the lock, he just instantly say 'oh it needs drilling out'. Thats because he isnt a locksmith, hes just a cowboy with a portable drill.
vw driver
(Off topic...)

@ UKNational - Would this set be a good "starter" set which would unlock clamps..?

FOURTEEN PIECE LOCK PICK SET + FREE EBOOK GUIDE TO LOCK PICKING |Total Price: £29.84

MPXS14Contains:
9x Handled Picks
1x Broken Key Extractor
4x Tension Tools

I like the 4 tension tools idea and the key extractor.

Any thoughts? (PM if you'd prefer!)
Jayen4
Thanks for that UKNational....... very helpful info there and it's got me really interested. I have come across a couple of videos from that 'Devonlocks (is it?). Any other info that you might want to pass on (via p.m. of course) would be gratefully received).
I wonder how long it takes to become a fully qualified locksmith ?? I'm looking for a new career anyway......
You know,this might actually work !

Oh and VW Driver......... Oi !! Noooo !! Stop muscleing in on my action ! lol laugh.gif

I wonder how long it would take for us 'pepipoo type to outnumber the scumbags (sorry...those nice clampers) ?? biggrin.gif wink.gif
uknational
QUOTE (vw driver @ Sun, 26 Apr 2009 - 12:16) *
(Off topic...)

@ UKNational - Would this set be a good "starter" set which would unlock clamps..?

FOURTEEN PIECE LOCK PICK SET + FREE EBOOK GUIDE TO LOCK PICKING |Total Price: £29.84

MPXS14Contains:
9x Handled Picks
1x Broken Key Extractor
4x Tension Tools

I like the 4 tension tools idea and the key extractor.

Any thoughts? (PM if you'd prefer!)



yea thats a good set. I only started with a 5 piece set, but they were a lot more expensive then. When you get it, practice on your own locks, you will quickly realise which ones are crap locks (because you can pick them easy) and which ones are better (and harder or impossible to pick without a LOT of practice).

The next thing i plan to buy is a tubular lock pick like the locks used on steering locks - the wheel clampers use those type of padlocks too, as well, but there still pickable with the right tool. Its a skill thing, you will find either you have the knack or you dont.


**edit**

Wow I just checked the Devon Locks site, there selling Bump Keys ohmy.gif

Yale, Union, Chubb, Era 5 tumblers and Era 6 Tumblers. Those 5 bump keys will get through 95% of all flat key tumbler locks (ie most padlocks) in the world, and cost you £50 total. I wonder how many coppers would recognise a bump key on your key ring if they saw it - not many, i bet!!?

Now theres a set of keys for a wannabe clamp remover !!!

BTW, there plenty of tutorial videos on You Tube on all sort of how-tos in lockpicking, no shortage of peopel to tell yo uhowto do it, pays to watch them.
MICKY1
My god ,that is scary .

It only took 15 minutes to make my bump key using an old Yale key and lock and it actually worked.

It shouldnt be that easy.
vw driver
@ UK National - I noticed the bump keys too, are they legal to buy but illegal to own?
vw driver
@ UKNational - the Tubular lock picking looks much easier then a standard key!
srg
If wheel-clamp padlocks are as easy to bump as this, you can understand why the "tow truck is on it's way" immediately after fitting the clamp....

That and to make more profit of course ...
crackpott
Which locks do the clampers usually use?
Glacier2
Depends, normally abloys.
clark_kent
You might also need a pick for handcuffs if you are caught with lock picking equipment without a good excuse. laugh.gif
srg
QUOTE (clark_kent @ Sun, 26 Apr 2009 - 17:27) *
You might also need a pick for handcuffs if you are caught with lock picking equipment without a good excuse. laugh.gif


Nah, you'll be fine - most handcuffs use universal keys
crackpott
I just fancy trying some Bump Keys on them If I ever get a clamp.
uknational
QUOTE (vw driver @ Sun, 26 Apr 2009 - 14:56) *
@ UK National - I noticed the bump keys too, are they legal to buy but illegal to own?


There like air rifles - legal to buy but dont be caught in the street with one, without a good excuse.

But then like I said, i bet your average Plod wouldnt know a bump key if it walked up and kicked him on the shins.
MICKY1
How about padlock shims, would they work on these types pf padlocks
Jayen4
QUOTE (uknational @ Sun, 26 Apr 2009 - 13:25) *
QUOTE (vw driver @ Sun, 26 Apr 2009 - 12:16) *
(Off topic...)

@ UKNational - Would this set be a good "starter" set which would unlock clamps..?

FOURTEEN PIECE LOCK PICK SET + FREE EBOOK GUIDE TO LOCK PICKING |Total Price: £29.84

MPXS14Contains:
9x Handled Picks
1x Broken Key Extractor
4x Tension Tools

I like the 4 tension tools idea and the key extractor.

Any thoughts? (PM if you'd prefer!)



yea thats a good set. I only started with a 5 piece set, but they were a lot more expensive then. When you get it, practice on your own locks, you will quickly realise which ones are crap locks (because you can pick them easy) and which ones are better (and harder or impossible to pick without a LOT of practice).

The next thing i plan to buy is a tubular lock pick like the locks used on steering locks - the wheel clampers use those type of padlocks too, as well, but there still pickable with the right tool. Its a skill thing, you will find either you have the knack or you dont.


**edit**

Wow I just checked the Devon Locks site, there selling Bump Keys ohmy.gif

Yale, Union, Chubb, Era 5 tumblers and Era 6 Tumblers. Those 5 bump keys will get through 95% of all flat key tumbler locks (ie most padlocks) in the world, and cost you £50 total. I wonder how many coppers would recognise a bump key on your key ring if they saw it - not many, i bet!!?

Now theres a set of keys for a wannabe clamp remover !!!

BTW, there plenty of tutorial videos on You Tube on all sort of how-tos in lockpicking, no shortage of peopel to tell yo uhowto do it, pays to watch them.




Which set are you looking at ?? If/when I can afford it,I'm going to get kitted up with both bump keys and the tubular lock picks ! I'll develop this idea yet ! wink.gif
By the way......now that i/we know there is another way to remove wheel clamps without damage, what would the consequences be of removing a police or council clamp in this way ?? No damage would be caused after all,so what could they charge you with ??

** I've just bought a couple of blank keys today,to see if I can make my own sucessful bump key for an old padlock that I have kicking around (never had the keys for it).
srg
Removing council or police clamps is /bad/

TMA 2004 s79:
(4) The regulations may also provide—

(a) that a vehicle to which an immobilisation device has been fixed in accordance with the regulations may only be released from the device by or under the direction of a person authorised by the enforcement authority; and

(b) that a person who, without being authorised to do so in accordance with the regulations, removes or attempts to remove an immobilisation device fixed to a vehicle in accordance with the regulations commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

Jayen4
Hmmm....O.K. So they intend to get their money one way or another eh ?? Do you have a link to the 'level of fines' thing,please ??



BTW uknational....are you on the ukbumpkeys site / forum ?? It's an excellent site !
Jayen4
QUOTE (srg @ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 - 23:28) *


Thank you...... wink.gif
uknational
QUOTE (Jayen4 @ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 - 23:34) *
QUOTE (srg @ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 - 23:28) *


Thank you...... wink.gif



Yea, dont eff with police/council clamps. Its a whole different can of legal worms than just messing with gorilla knuckled clampers.

Another interesting possibility for the more brutal removal of clamp locks is Thermite.

Thermite is an intimate mixture of powdered aluminium and Ferrous Oxide. Its burns at an awesome 4500 °F, and cannot be extinguished. Placing a 4 inch plantpot of thermite on the bonnet of a car and igniting it will result in a large hole being melted through the bonnet and engine block, all the way to the floor, in under 30 seconds. The addition of barium nitrate to thermite creates Thermate-TH3, and increases its thermal effect, produces a larger flame, and significantly reduces the ignition temperature. Although the primary purpose of Thermate-TH3 by the armed forces is as an incendiary anti-material weapon, it also has uses in welding metal components.

Thermite was originally invented as a practical joke, a small pile of thermite round each of the wheels of a railway carriage resulted in it permanently welding the carriage to the rails. So imagine what a 2 inch plantpot of thermite in close proximity to a clamp lock will do (of course, you'd need a steel plate to shield the car.........but itll be just as quick as boltcutters)

Have a look at this, this is thermite melting a french engine block................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOPOaeooTXw

Thermite is probably illegal to own in the UK...............................


WARNING!!!

Thermite usage is hazardous due to the extremely high temperatures produced and the extreme difficulty in smothering a reaction once initiated. The thermite reaction releases dangerous ultra-violet (UV) light requiring that the reaction not be viewed directly, or that special eye protection (for example, a welder's mask) be worn. Small streams of molten iron released in the reaction can travel considerable distances and may melt through metal containers, igniting their contents. Additionally, flammable metals with relatively low boiling points such as zinc, whose boiling point of 907 °C (1665 °F) is about 1370 °C (2500 °F) below the temperature at which thermite burns, could potentially boil superheated metal violently into the air if near a thermite reaction, where it could then burst into flame as it is exposed to oxygen.

Preheating of thermite before ignition can easily be done accidentally, for example by pouring a new pile of thermite over a hot, recently-ignited pile of thermite slag. When ignited, preheated thermite can burn almost instantaneously, releasing a much greater amount of light and heat energy than normal and causing burns and eye damage at what would normally be a reasonably safe distance.

The thermite reaction can take place accidentally in industrial locations where abrasive grinding and cutting wheels are used with ferrous metals. Using aluminium in this situation produces an a mixture of oxides which is capable of a violent explosive reaction.

Mixing water with thermite or pouring water onto burning thermite can cause a steam explosion, spraying hot fragments in all directions.
whitewing
QUOTE (srg @ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 - 23:17) *
Removing council or police clamps is /bad/

TMA 2004 s79:
(4) The regulations may also provide—

(a) that a vehicle to which an immobilisation device has been fixed in accordance with the regulations may only be released from the device by or under the direction of a person authorised by the enforcement authority; and

(b) that a person who, without being authorised to do so in accordance with the regulations, removes or attempts to remove an immobilisation device fixed to a vehicle in accordance with the regulations commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.


.. of course they would have to prove who did it..... Would s.172 apply?

And the above only applies to clamps applied 'in accordance with the regulations', so what about a clamp following an unenforceable PCN or similar council dodginess....?

Jayen4
QUOTE (uknational @ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 - 23:55) *
QUOTE (Jayen4 @ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 - 23:34) *
QUOTE (srg @ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 - 23:28) *


Thank you...... wink.gif



Yea, dont eff with police/council clamps. Its a whole different can of legal worms than just messing with gorilla knuckled clampers.

Another interesting possibility for the more brutal removal of clamp locks is Thermite.

Thermite is an intimate mixture of powdered aluminium and Ferrous Oxide. Its burns at an awesome 4500 °F, and cannot be extinguished. Placing a 4 inch plantpot of thermite on the bonnet of a car and igniting it will result in a large hole being melted through the bonnet and engine block, all the way to the floor, in under 30 seconds. The addition of barium nitrate to thermite creates Thermate-TH3, and increases its thermal effect, produces a larger flame, and significantly reduces the ignition temperature. Although the primary purpose of Thermate-TH3 by the armed forces is as an incendiary anti-material weapon, it also has uses in welding metal components.

Thermite was originally invented as a practical joke, a small pile of thermite round each of the wheels of a railway carriage resulted in it permanently welding the carriage to the rails. So imagine what a 2 inch plantpot of thermite in close proximity to a clamp lock will do (of course, you'd need a steel plate to shield the car.........but itll be just as quick as boltcutters)

Have a look at this, this is thermite melting a french engine block................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOPOaeooTXw

Thermite is probably illegal to own in the UK...............................


WARNING!!!

Thermite usage is hazardous due to the extremely high temperatures produced and the extreme difficulty in smothering a reaction once initiated. The thermite reaction releases dangerous ultra-violet (UV) light requiring that the reaction not be viewed directly, or that special eye protection (for example, a welder's mask) be worn. Small streams of molten iron released in the reaction can travel considerable distances and may melt through metal containers, igniting their contents. Additionally, flammable metals with relatively low boiling points such as zinc, whose boiling point of 907 °C (1665 °F) is about 1370 °C (2500 °F) below the temperature at which thermite burns, could potentially boil superheated metal violently into the air if near a thermite reaction, where it could then burst into flame as it is exposed to oxygen.

Preheating of thermite before ignition can easily be done accidentally, for example by pouring a new pile of thermite over a hot, recently-ignited pile of thermite slag. When ignited, preheated thermite can burn almost instantaneously, releasing a much greater amount of light and heat energy than normal and causing burns and eye damage at what would normally be a reasonably safe distance.

The thermite reaction can take place accidentally in industrial locations where abrasive grinding and cutting wheels are used with ferrous metals. Using aluminium in this situation produces an a mixture of oxides which is capable of a violent explosive reaction.

Mixing water with thermite or pouring water onto burning thermite can cause a steam explosion, spraying hot fragments in all directions.






Bloody hell !! Knowing my luck,I'd end up either: A: Blowing myself up ! or B: Burning a bloody great hole in ME !! laugh.gif
A well known phrase comes to mind here......''You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off !!'' lol
pants1
blimey, that bump key thing is quite scary but i'm gonna give it a go.

I have access to a large supply of old keys, if anyone here wants a few old keys to play with PM me your address and what type/s you want and i'll see if have some to send you. FOC
Jayen4
QUOTE (whitewing @ Tue, 28 Apr 2009 - 00:36) *
QUOTE (srg @ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 - 23:17) *
Removing council or police clamps is /bad/

TMA 2004 s79:
(4) The regulations may also provide—

(a) that a vehicle to which an immobilisation device has been fixed in accordance with the regulations may only be released from the device by or under the direction of a person authorised by the enforcement authority; and

(b) that a person who, without being authorised to do so in accordance with the regulations, removes or attempts to remove an immobilisation device fixed to a vehicle in accordance with the regulations commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.


.. of course they would have to prove who did it..... Would s.172 apply?

And the above only applies to clamps applied 'in accordance with the regulations', so what about a clamp following an unenforceable PCN or similar council dodginess....?




Hmmm.....S172....what are youi thinking of Whitewing ??
whitewing
If "persons unknown" were to lockpick/cut off/thermite a Police/Council clamp, is there any obligation on the RK to disclose who was in charge of the vehicle at the time?
uknational
QUOTE (whitewing @ Wed, 29 Apr 2009 - 23:02) *
If "persons unknown" were to lockpick/cut off/thermite a Police/Council clamp, is there any obligation on the RK to disclose who was in charge of the vehicle at the time?


I woudl assume yo uare oblige dto provide the driver details if its your car, if a criminal act has been committed.

On the other hand, how would the police prove the connection between the driver and the clamp remover ?

It the same principle as two strangers meeting in a bar and agreeing to murder each others wives.
muckychimney
Have you seen this site ?
http://www.ukbumpkeys.com/subcat_Bump-Sets_131_index.php
now the pro kit looks like you could bump any lock with them even multi locks wow
crackpott
Ive just bought a set of 30" Boltcutters
Just in case I had to cut my toenails, officer
uknational
QUOTE (muckychimney @ Thu, 30 Apr 2009 - 00:22) *
Have you seen this site ?
http://www.ukbumpkeys.com/subcat_Bump-Sets_131_index.php
now the pro kit looks like you could bump any lock with them even multi locks wow


holy moly.

Not only is that the biggest set of bump keys ive ever seen, they have bump keys set for tubular locks, and the best set of padlock shims around. For about £200 i think you woudl pretty much be able to remove any wheel clamp on the planet non-destructively (with a bit of practice).

We need to start collecting photos of padlocks on clamps, so we know whats out there.

Maybe we need another sub-forum, the Anti-Clamping Forum?
vw driver
I tried an experiment on the yale padlock for the garden shed - I managed to pick this in under 5 mins.

It is quite a sturdy padlock too...

I had no idea how vulnerable locks actually are!!

bama
what did you use ?

oh and now bump keys are becoming common knowledge you can get locks that bump keys can't defeat.
Anti-bump.

I would suggest getting them for the house is probably a good idea.
vw driver
pm sent
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