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Bham601
Hi,

I took my brother to post office yesterday 16/04/09 in my car. As I stopped in a loading bay (Red Route) to drop him off by the post office, I seen a police office walking towards me. I rolled down the window and he asked me to come to their car which was stopped at some distance behind my car. I thought they wanted to tell me about the parking in the red route. I sat in their car, he asked for my license, which I had it on me and gave it to him. He then confirmed my name, address and few other things if that car is in my name etc. He did a few checks over the radio, I just sat calmly as I knew I have got all the legal requirements to drive that car. when the checks came clear, he asked me do you know why we stopped you? I said I stopped there myself as I dropped off my brother and maybe you want to check my documentation like, insurance and MOT etc. Then he suddenly surprised me by saying that I have gone through a red light at the pedestrian crossing behind me. I told him that it never happened as the light were green when I went past them and I have got my brother (passenger) to confirm it as well. I knew lights were green as I had to stop just after the crossing to drop off my brother ( which proves that I was not speeding as I was stopping and paying attention). I carried on being nice and polite by telling them that it did not happen and I do not have any driving offenses before and if they think that this actually happened, they can just give me a verbal warning for this time. He then said having a clean license does not mean that you are a safe driver as you could be driving through red lights all day and not stopped by police. He then started writing FPN. I told them that they were being harsh on me as lights were green and they are not listening to me. At the end they gave me FPN and told me to bring my documents to the police station and then they will send it off for 3 points.

I am still within the first 2 years of my driving license.
I do not have any points before (and I do not want any).
I did not commit this offence (954).
I have got my brother and a pedestrian as witness.
There were two police officers.

Now the question is how can I get rid of this penalty forced onto my by police?
what steps should I take from here?

Thanks
ict_guy
QUOTE (Bham601 @ Fri, 17 Apr 2009 - 11:42) *
I have got my brother and a pedestrian as witness.

Thanks


Who is the pedestrian witness? Do you have their details, are they independent (ie. not known to you prior to this incident) and can he/she confirm that you went through the lights on Green?

Also, what type of car were the police in, did it have a video camera mounted at the front window? Did the police say if they have video of the incident?

Fighting this will be very difficult as are all roadside stops. The two officers word against yours and the passangers will hold up in court. The independent witness could cast doubt on the officers statement/testomony, however.
Bham601
QUOTE
Who is the pedestrian witness? Do you have their details, are they independent (ie. not known to you prior to this incident) and can he/she confirm that you went through the lights on Green?


Yes I did get her name and contact number, she agreed to be the witness and confirm that lights were green went I went through(she is an independent witness).

QUOTE
Also, what type of car were the police in, did it have a video camera mounted at the front window? Did the police say if they have video of the incident?


They were in a marked car but they did not mention any video of the incident being recorded.

I have contacted a few solicitors and I am told that these kind of cases are not entitled to any legal aid as well. Any help on that?
davepoth
No, no legal aid for motoring cases unfortunately.

You and your brother's word against the police sadly won't count for much, but the independant witness does help your case greatly here.

Given the circumstances I assume you will refuse the FPN. There's a chance that it won't go any further than that once the CPS get to look at the file, however if it does progress the process for building your defence will be relatively straightforward as it does not revolve around any complicated legal arguments.
ict_guy
Do the police officers who spoke to you know that there is an independent witness? It would certainly be worth getting a statement from the witness, but I'm not sure how that should be obtained - ie. through a solicitor etc. I doubt very much the CPS would take the case to court if they had knowledge of your witness's account.
desktop_demon
Worth checking if there are any cameras pointing at the scene. In large towns almost all major roads are covered. A video recording would support your case greatly. Most shops have video recorders some of which point at the door and so out of the window onto the street. Or are there any other cameras located anywhere higher up on lamp posts, etc.
davepoth
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Fri, 17 Apr 2009 - 14:27) *
Do the police officers who spoke to you know that there is an independent witness? It would certainly be worth getting a statement from the witness, but I'm not sure how that should be obtained - ie. through a solicitor etc. I doubt very much the CPS would take the case to court if they had knowledge of your witness's account.


There's no need for a solicitor to take the statement; it's valid so long as it is in the right format (a "Section 9" statement). The HSE link below provides lots of info about what one has to include, it's nothing onerous though.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementg...ess/witness.htm
southpaw82
QUOTE (davepoth @ Fri, 17 Apr 2009 - 16:11) *
QUOTE (ict_guy @ Fri, 17 Apr 2009 - 14:27) *
Do the police officers who spoke to you know that there is an independent witness? It would certainly be worth getting a statement from the witness, but I'm not sure how that should be obtained - ie. through a solicitor etc. I doubt very much the CPS would take the case to court if they had knowledge of your witness's account.


There's no need for a solicitor to take the statement; it's valid so long as it is in the right format (a "Section 9" statement). The HSE link below provides lots of info about what one has to include, it's nothing onerous though.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementg...ess/witness.htm


Quite but a statement taken down by the defendant isn't going to cut much ice, is it?
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