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jnc90
Hi,

Yesterday on the 11/04/09, I received a speeding ticket for doing 66 in a 50! Usually I'd shut up and pay it but I'm in my first 2 years and the nature of me getting caught was taking the micky!

It was a 70 on the M6 that went to a temp limit of 50 and as soon as I saw the sign I saw the camera!!! No time to stop at all!

However like I said ticket came yesterday, the header says it was sent on the 09/04 and the offense was on the 23/03!
So it was sent out 17 days after and received 19 days after! However the twist is it was a hire car on behalf of my company! Can I still get out of this with a solicitors letter to explain it was outside of 14 days??

Any advice on how to avoid this, cos I really can't afford 3 points now, would be much appreciated!

Many thanks!

Josh
ict_guy
The NIP needs to be served on the registered keeper within 14 days. Since this was a hire car and you are not the RK, there is no time limit for the NIP to get to you.

Please complete the NIP wizard, posting the results back to this thread.
jnc90
Okay cheers mate!
where is this NIP wizard??
nemo
NIP Wizard.
andy_foster
Please visit the READ ME FIRST section (Click Here), answer all the questions in the NIP Wizard (including the detailed questions reached by clicking on the Additional Questions button on the second page), and the Wizard will then post its output back here to enable us to help you.
jnc90
Well the result was;


Do nothing!

The police are not requesting the information from you, they are requesting it from the person the NIP is addressed to.
Wait until you receive a NIP addressed to you personally, then come back here.

This is because the NIP is addressed to my manager who rented the car! Do you think I should still do nothing? My friend said the first one he had he did nothing with and he was never chase up on!

Any tips??

Thanks again! smile.gif
mistrey
That's right, it is not you being asked to provide the information, it is whoever the NIP is adressed to. You should ask them to wait until as near as possible to the 28 day timelimit is up and then send it back recorded delivery. You will then receive one in your name.
jobo
the nip wiz is as much for us as you, so post it up

they will prob follow through

your manager has to fill it in and send it back

why have you got it
nemo
The general idea is that you post the Wizard's output into the thread.. wink.gif

Regardless, the fact that the NIP / s.172 request is not addressed to you personally does indeed mean that you are under no legal obligation to do anything with it. But if you do decide to sit tight and do nowt, whilst its likely that your manager would receive a reminder, he may also receive a summons for failing to provide driver details (an offence which carries 6 points and a sizeable fine upon conviction).

If you do not wish to run the risk of dropping your manager in it, then you should consider returning the form to him and ensuring that he completes it with your details (and aims to have it returned close to, but not later than, 28 days from when the notice was received). In due course, you should receive your own s.172 request, whereupon you can complete a new NIP Wizard (and paste its output into this thread).
jnc90
Thats all the wizard said..

Because you didn't answer the additional questions needed for a forum post the Wizard wasn't able to construct one for you.

Onoly did three questions lol!
jnc90
QUOTE (mistrey @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 18:38) *
That's right, it is not you being asked to provide the information, it is whoever the NIP is adressed to. You should ask them to wait until as near as possible to the 28 day timelimit is up and then send it back recorded delivery. You will then receive one in your name.


Why should I wait as long as possible??

If I was to complain that there wasn't enough warning of the temp limit what do u think the outcome would be??

Thanks, Josh
Glacier2
You wait as long as possible in the hope that you can push the matter over the 6 month prosecution limit.
Why help them when you can possibly get away scot free?
neil3841
I not sure here but is the fact that the registered keeper did not get the Nip within 14 days any use to him, would it be a good idea to hold on to the original and send back a copy.

In any case returning it to the manager would seem like a good idea as he would not be happy if he ending up in court for S172 and might hold a grudge
nemo
QUOTE (neil3841 @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 21:23) *
I not sure here but is the fact that the registered keeper did not get the Nip within 14 days any use to him,

What makes you think that the initial NIP was served later than 14 days ?
jobo
theres a better than even chance it was sent the lease company (RK) in 14 days

personal id let the manager swing for his stupidity , but then ive got no-moral compass
neil3841
QUOTE (nemo @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 21:30) *
QUOTE (neil3841 @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 21:23) *
I not sure here but is the fact that the registered keeper did not get the Nip within 14 days any use to him,

What makes you think that the initial NIP was served later than 14 days ?

Sorry my mistake I just read back the nip with the managers name on it was the second nip, the first will have gone to the rental place and as the 2nd was with the manager in 17 days its a safe bet the initail one was served on time.I made the mistake of thinkin the manager was the registered keeper

QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 21:32) *
theres a better than even chance it was sent the lease company (RK) in 14 days

personal id let the manager swing for his stupidity , but then ive got no-moral compass



that he could do but he might find the manager finds a way to give him the sack if he gets a day trip to court or at the very least make work hell
ict_guy
Offence date was 23/03 and you're already 2 NIPS on...... Everyone certainly is working quickly! If I were you I'd give the NIP back to your boss nearer the 28 day deadline, then tell him that's it's him who needs to sign and return it. Wait for the one in your name and ask for photos etc etc etc
jnc90
Thanks a lot for all your help guys! smile.gif

I think what I'm gonna do is,

wait till Tuesday when I can phone just to check if another one is on the way, not that I think ther is but u never know! Then tell my manager (a she btw, lol) and say that my fathers friend (owns a law firm) is looking into the 14 day thing just so I can delay sending it to her then as late as possible send it to her for her to send back then maybe do the whole delaying thingy!

Do u think a solicitors letter complaining bout the 14 day hing would be worth a try?

Thanks again!
nemo
QUOTE (jnc90 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 00:28) *
Do u think a solicitors letter complaining bout the 14 day thing would be worth a try?

Not if the initial notice was served on the RK within 14 days, no.
jnc90
But it could be used as a delay tactic yes?? smile.gif

best way I see round this is getting the NIP I have now back to them as late as possible, then using all different queries such as the 14 day thing, photo's, callibration of camera, not enough notice of temp speed limit.....

Any thoughts??

Cheers!
nemo
QUOTE (jnc90 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 00:42) *
But it could be used as a delay tactic yes??

Not necessarily, no.

The 28 day response 'clock' is not automatically suspended, reset or extended simply because dialogue has been entered into between the recipient of a s.172 request and the SCP. Of course, the SCP may well offer an unofficial extension if they perceive the correspondence to be genuine, but they are certainly under no statutory obligation to do so.

QUOTE (jnc90 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 00:42) *
best way I see round this is getting the NIP I have now back to them as late as possible, then using all different queries such as the 14 day thing, photo's, callibration of camera, not enough notice of temp speed limit.....

Whilst there is nothing stopping you from asking for all manner of information from the SCP, they are under absolutely no obligation to provide you with copies of anything at this stage.

And if they consider you to be on a fishing trip, then they are likely to cease communication forthwith.
Glacier2
The 28 day clock continues to run regardless.

If you dick around with the SCP expect a summons as their response.
neil3841
14 days is a non starter and likely to alart the scammers you are up for a fight. Have your manager send it back so it arrives on day 26-27 then wait for a nip in your name once you have it do the nip wizard and we can carry on from there

Oh yes and send all correspondance recorded at the minimum spaical is better the police have been known to not recieve things that are sent first class
jnc90
okay thanks a lot all, I'll do that, and get her to send it recorded, first class on say the 25th day, now is that the 25tt day from the date on the letter or when i received it??
neil3841
the 28 days start on recieving but send it from the date on the letter who knows how long your boss had it before you recieved it
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (nemo @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 18:40) *
he may also receive a summons for failing to provide driver details (an offence which carries 6 points and a sizeable fine upon conviction).


QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 21:55) *
6 points might see the manager banned and loose his job


Tsk, tsk. rolleyes.gif
1) The manger won't be summonsed, the company will (assuming that it's addressed to a company), and
2) No points if the manager is replying on behalf of a company.
jnc90
Right dun think I've made this clear enough, my mistake!

for some reason it never went to my manager so I'm guessing I can count the date I got it as the start of the 28 days??

However the header had my managers name and my address, not sure why??

Spoke to a solicitor y'day who has had 2 tickets recentlyand escaped both by delaying for 6 moths! Do I rsik further punishment if I try this??

Thanks again! smile.gif
Glacier2
QUOTE (jeffreyarcher @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 03:25) *
QUOTE (nemo @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 18:40) *
he may also receive a summons for failing to provide driver details (an offence which carries 6 points and a sizeable fine upon conviction).


QUOTE (jobo @ Sun, 12 Apr 2009 - 21:55) *
6 points might see the manager banned and loose his job


Tsk, tsk. rolleyes.gif
1) The manger won't be summonsed, the company will (assuming that it's addressed to a company), and
2) No points if the manager is replying on behalf of a company.

Was it not standard practice to sting the company secretary's licence for any S172 points?
southpaw82
Glacier, take a look at the entry in Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. Points are not applicable to offences committed by a body corporate. The only way an officer of the company could have their licence endorsed is if they were convicted of the offence as well, either as a principal or accessory.
jeffreyarcher
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 12:55) *
Was it not standard practice to sting the company secretary's licence for any S172 points?

Do yo have any examples of this? It certainly seems to be a widespread urban myth.

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 13:05) *
The only way an officer of the company could have their licence endorsed is if they were convicted of the offence as well, either as a principal or accessory.

Exactamundo; and that can't happen merely by virtue of his company secretaryship, or under the connivance / negligence provisons of S172 (for the company's S172).

QUOTE (jnc90 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 12:37) *
for some reason it never went to my manager <...>
However the header had my managers name and my address, not sure why??

Summat wrong here.
If it was addressed to him, how did he not get it?
Glacier2
QUOTE (jeffreyarcher @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 13:32) *
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 12:55) *
Was it not standard practice to sting the company secretary's licence for any S172 points?

Do yo have any examples of this? It certainly seems to be a widespread urban myth.


I can't find you a specific example, but i do believe that the scammers did threaten this in the early days of the scameraships where companies were routinely ignoring S172 notices to save their drivers from the totting ban.

southpaw82
Rule number 1 wink.gif
Glacier2
Scammers lie.
jnc90
QUOTE (jnc90 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 12:37) *
for some reason it never went to my manager <...>
However the header had my managers name and my address, not sure why??


On the letter header it was;

<My managers name>
<My address>

Now then this seems dodgy to me, is there a way that I could use this by say ignoring, claiming it was wrongly addressed or does this risk further penalties??

Btw its a very big company, dun like to say who, but probs biggest in UK, dun know i this affects anything at all but thought I'd mention it! smile.gif

Thanks again all!
southpaw82
When you say "my address" do you mean your home address or your company address?
jnc90
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 19:41) *
When you say "my address" do you mean your home address or your company address?


Home address! That's why it sounds dodgy to me!

If i tried the delay for 6 months tactic would it be better to do all the delaying questions thru a solicitors letter??

Thanks again!
Glacier2
Return the letter marked not known at this address. Simples.
jnc90
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 19:47) *
Return the letter marked not known at this address. Simples.



Really? do u think this will work fine??

shall I delay it as close to the 28 day mark as possible and by the time they send me the correct one will it be too late for them to do anything??
Glacier2
Don't delay in returning the letter.
jnc90
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 21:46) *
Don't delay in returning the letter.


Okay, I don't have the original envelope tho plus I'm gonna have to tell my manager! Does this mean that I could get in trouble for purposely sending it back even tho I knew the addressee??

Thanks

Josh
Glacier2
Why?

There is no person of that name at your address?

It would have helped if you did not open the envelope.
jnc90
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Mon, 13 Apr 2009 - 23:38) *
Why?

There is no person of that name at your address?

It would have helped if you did not open the envelope.


Okay so u think that it would be okay ust to send it back in an envelope saying person not know at this address?

My mother actually opened it because we still get mail for the people who lived there before us and sometimes random stuff for people who have never lived there lol.

Welll back in work today so I'll have a word with my manager see what she says! What do u think will happen once I've sent it back saying that??

Thanks
jnc90
Right, I already have a thread for this but its full of a lot of information and advice, which is great but thought it would be easier to clarify in a new thread.

So had a ticket in a hire car which my manager leased on my behalf. The NIP contains my managers name but my address which is why it came to me.

I have been advised to return it saying person not known at this address. I have a few questions about this...

a)if I do so do I put my manager at risk of further penalties?
b)do I risk any further penalties cos I know the person but I'm sending it back which may seem like I'm trying to avoid it?
c)what do u think the next step taken by the police will be?
d)will they just invsetigate further and send me a new NIP with my name do u think?

Thanks a lot!
Josh
Fredd
We have a "one case, one thread" rule for a very good reason - to avoid wasting everyone's time gleaning the information they extracted in the previous one!
jnc90
QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 14 Apr 2009 - 11:34) *
We have a "one case, one thread" rule for a very good reason - to avoid wasting everyone's time gleaning the information they extracted in the previous one!


okay my bad, thanks! smile.gif
jnc90
Well my manager said just send it back so I'll try that and see what happens! smile.gif

Glacier2
I assume you are sending it back as not known at this address?

Most likely they will send a fresh NIP to the company.
jnc90
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Tue, 14 Apr 2009 - 13:19) *
I assume you are sending it back as not known at this address?

Most likely they will send a fresh NIP to the company.


Yeah thats what I'm planning!

Do u mean to my copmany or the hire comapny?

If it does go to my company well they be in trouble?? Or will it just come back to me?
Glacier2
They will send a new NIP to whoever put down the managers name at your address.
jnc90
QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Tue, 14 Apr 2009 - 14:00) *
They will send a new NIP to whoever put down the managers name at your address.


okay cheers, I'm guessing that'll be the hire compny then!
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