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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
lionel10
Guilty as charged... Picking up my daughter from the overground station at Peckham, I have seen the videos, however there is only one sign warning of 'traffic enforcement cameras' you will see from my photographs that it now faces away from any oncoming traffic and is no longer visible (I certainly didn't see it until I returned on foot to photograph the area) as it was in the Google streetview pictures taken last summer.
The yellow lines are in dreadful condition as depicted in the pictures.
Is there any point in going further based on this evidence?
Any help or suggestions gratefully appreciated.





Double yellows, but in very poor condition



warning sign as it is now


warning sign as it was when photographed by google streetview


No entry sign and no loading sign as seen by google streetview


No entry sign and no loading sign as seen today





Lionel10
Teufel
pics not showing for me
bama
show fine for me. maybe something at your (browser) end. clear your browser cache and try again.
southpaw82
Did you stop just to pick your daughter up or did you stop, wait and then your daughter appeared?

PErsonally I don't think the signs are in a bad enough state to be unenforceable. I don't see the camera enforcement sign having any bearing.
glasgow_bhoy
Should probably post up a washed copy of the PCN... thats the best place for the experts to scruitinize
lionel10
On both occasions I had to wait for her to appear, I just do not get the signage thing, surely if they have to put up signage it should at the very least be visible to those it is aimed at? I will put up the 2 PCN's for you to see, but so far it is looking like i will have to cough up huh...

PCN No1


PCN No2


Again thank you in advance for any help.
Lionel10
southpaw82
I take it the PCNs have a back to them? Show us all of the pages please.
lionel10
Sorry ... here is the back, which is the same for both PCN's





Lionel10
southpaw82
QUOTE
Show us all of the pages please.
lionel10
it's coming...
southpaw82
Thanks. Much easier to give advice from the whole PCN rather than bit by bit.
lionel10
on the way
lionel10


and



thank you lionel10
dave-o
Hmm, the TWOC point is one of those that looks a bit fettered but may just be OK due to the "such as" part. Opinions?
lionel10
TWOC, Such as ? could you please elucidate? thank you lionel 10
Transit man
QUOTE (lionel10 @ Tue, 31 Mar 2009 - 11:27) *
TWOC, Such as ? could you please elucidate? thank you lionel 10


TWOC, taken without owners consent. ie nicked, or that is what they assume, sometimes a vehicle can be TWOCed but NOT stolen.
dave-o
QUOTE (lionel10 @ Tue, 31 Mar 2009 - 11:27) *
TWOC, Such as ? could you please elucidate? thank you lionel 10




It was a question to more knowledgable forum members. If they agree that it's an issue then we can explain further.

It's a slightly complicated issue so if it's not applicable i don't want to clutter your thread with it.

*EDIT*
And i meant "more knowledgable than me", not "more knowledgable than you". It wasn't a dis.
lionel10
Ok, i'll shut up biggrin.gif

Thanks Transit man, still don't understand, maybe best to just keep quiet for a bit happy.gif
Neil B
Getting back to basic facts for a minute. How old is your daughter and exactly why was she not kerbside when you arrived?

-

lionel10
She is 13 years old and was not kerbside because the train was a few minutes late.
peodude
If all else fails, and you have to pay, it may be worth a letter to the council saying that had you had a PCN on your windscreen after the first offence, then the second offence wouldn't have happened, and would they cancel the second oone as long as you pay the first.

They may use discretion and cancel one of them (I am aware people are now waiting at windows for flying pigs, but if you don't at least try, you don't get.)
Neil B
QUOTE (lionel10 @ Tue, 31 Mar 2009 - 12:23) *
She is 13 years old and was not kerbside because the train was a few minutes late.


Well just from a purely common sense point of view i would say that boarding exemption possibly applies.


If you didn't arrive before the train was due then quite reasonable to ensure the safety of your daughter. Council may argue that she should have been kerbside but that's cos they want dosh and have no concern for peoples' safety.

You need to take a look at the vid times more precisely.



lionel10
Thank you for your time in looking at this, but it does not appear to me that I have a better than 50% chance of winning. I would happily get hold of a copy of the video but that will undoubtedly cost money and if the likelyhood of success is minimal I will probably just do what I swore I wouldn't and pay. i will follow your advice...
dave-o
It costs nothing to view the vid in person. It costs about £10 to get a copy sent to you.

If you believe you are in the right you should follow it through. There is always the possibility the council will mess up on future paperwork or just drop out shortly before the appeal (happens all the time).
lionel10
I'll go for it then...Just so outraged at all this, thank you everyone for taking the time to help out, this site is a Godsend I intend to become a useful contributor to it. O and i will let you know what happens ...
Neil B
Do they have vid on-line? Check.

Check the timing. also check the train timetable.

-



QUOTE (peodude @ Tue, 31 Mar 2009 - 12:31) *
If all else fails, and you have to pay, it may be worth a letter to the council saying that had you had a PCN on your windscreen after the first offence, then the second offence wouldn't have happened, and would they cancel the second oone as long as you pay the first.

They may use discretion and cancel one of them (I am aware people are now waiting at windows for flying pigs, but if you don't at least try, you don't get.)

Not such a daft idea! I have seen such a pig go past, LOL. 2 out of 3 cancelled by Islington for a moving traffic contravention, repeated over 4 days at one location before any of the PCNs arrived in the post.


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lionel10
except mine were issued on two separate days...
lionel10
Good Afternoon,

I am going to PATAS this Friday, if anyone has any bright ideas on how i should approach defending this i would be most appreciative.
I guess my main bone of contention is the enforcement sign that is facing away from oncoming traffic and is just not visible. Are there not requirements for the signage to be clear in order to warn that an infraction may be issued as a result of being photographed/filmed ?

Many thanks,

Lionel
Neil B
What was the result of actual timing? how long were you there, etc.?
lionel10
Hello Neil,

I was filmed on two occasions on successive days, 1st was 3 minutes 46 secs and the second day was for 1 minute 21 secs, on both occasions I did not leave the car, on one occasion the video show my daughter getting into the car on the other it doesn't.

all the best, Lionel
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