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FightBack Forums > Queries > Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices
Watcher
Mrs Watcher and I have just returned home from a few weeks away from home, and whilst reading through the large pile of post waiting for us I noticed steam and expletives rising from Mrs W. On enquiring why, a letter headed (in dreaded red!) Roxburghe - debt collectors was thrust in my direction. According to them, this relates to an "Unpaid Civil Penalty Notice".

Now, I've been a member of this site long enough to know that this will remain an unpaid notice, (Civil Penalty, my ar*e!), but I thought you might all like to see (should such be needed) just how stupid these people are. I'm sure I don't need to point out which parts are the most stupid, and there's no point doing their job for them and telling them how/where their paperwork needs corecting!

First, the "Issue Date" is given as **/7/2008" - yes, July last year! Second, the "Location" is given as TOWN - NAME NAME 2 ( (sic), where NAME NAME might have been 'Road' or 'Avenue' or 'Drive', but it actually says "2 (". Not that it makes a scrap of difference but apart from anything else Mrs W was working more than 20 miles from this town at the time!

The text of the letter goes on; [I have not corrected anything - such as bad punctuation or peculiar use of capital letters; are they German?]

"A Notice has been attached to the above vehicle. I understand from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency that you were the registered keeper at the relevant time.

If you were driving the vehicle at the relevant time you have a liability to pay the Total Amount Due. Even if you were not driving the vehicle but were the registered keeper you also have a liablity for the acts of the driver in parking in breach of the terms and conditions of parking. We are prepared to accept the Total Amount Due in settlement of the claim against you.

If you do not pay the Total Amount Due within seven days from the date of this letter we may commence Court proceedings against you. To prevent us doing this please send payment to the address set out in this letter. your cheque should be made payable to roxburghe (UK) Limited with the reference number written on the reverse. Alternatively, you may pay online at www.roxburghe.com or over the phone by calling 01932 331010.

Yours sincerely,

Steve Dargonne
Parking Services Manager
Roxburghe (UK) Limited
for and on behalf of FIRST MANAGEMENT GROUP LTD

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO REGISTERED KEEPER


If anyone drives your vehicle with your permission you can be held responsible for any parking charges they receive. Depending on your relationship with the driver you may be able to seek reimbursment from them for these parking charges. If someone else was driving your vehicle please tell us who this was by completing the detals below. Even if you do this we may decide to pursue both you and the drive for payment.

Driver at time offence: (sic)

Address:

Telephone (H):
Watcher
Mrs Watcher and I have just returned home from a few weeks away from home, and whilst reading through the large pile of post waiting for us I noticed steam and expletives rising from Mrs W. On enquiring why, a letter headed (in dreaded red!) Roxburghe - debt collectors was thrust in my direction. According to them, this relates to an "Unpaid Civil Penalty Notice".

Now, I've been a member of this site long enough to know that this will remain an unpaid notice, (Civil Penalty, my ar*e!), but I thought you might all like to see (should such be needed) just how stupid these people are. I'm sure I don't need to point out which parts are the most stupid, and there's no point doing their job for them and telling them how/where their paperwork needs corecting!

First, the "Issue Date" is given as **/7/2008" - yes, July last year! Second, the "Location" is given as TOWN - NAME NAME 2 ( (sic), where NAME NAME might have been 'Road' or 'Avenue' or 'Drive', but it actually says "2 (". Not that it makes a scrap of difference but apart from anything else Mrs W was working more than 20 miles from this town at the time!

The text of the letter goes on; [I have not corrected anything - such as bad punctuation or peculiar use of capital letters; are they German?]

"A Notice has been attached to the above vehicle. I understand from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency that you were the registered keeper at the relevant time.

If you were driving the vehicle at the relevant time you have a liability to pay the Total Amount Due. Even if you were not driving the vehicle but were the registered keeper you also have a liablity for the acts of the driver in parking in breach of the terms and conditions of parking. We are prepared to accept the Total Amount Due in settlement of the claim against you.

If you do not pay the Total Amount Due within seven days from the date of this letter we may commence Court proceedings against you. To prevent us doing this please send payment to the address set out in this letter. your cheque should be made payable to roxburghe (UK) Limited with the reference number written on the reverse. Alternatively, you may pay online at www.roxburghe.com or over the phone by calling 01932 331010.

Yours sincerely,

Steve Dargonne
Parking Services Manager
Roxburghe (UK) Limited
for and on behalf of FIRST MANAGEMENT GROUP LTD

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO REGISTERED KEEPER


If anyone drives your vehicle with your permission you can be held responsible for any parking charges they receive. Depending on your relationship with the driver you may be able to seek reimbursment from them for these parking charges. If someone else was driving your vehicle please tell us who this was by completing the detals below. Even if you do this we may decide to pursue both you and the drive for payment.

Driver at time offence: (sic)

Address:

Telephone (H): telephone
bama
Multiple 'breakages' of http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/draft/ukd...0110811574_en_1

and some enough to be strict liability criminal offences under that act IMV.


Though it would need explaining to TS.
Alexis
You're really lucky! I'd love one a Roxburge letter. Just think of the fun to be had!
Teufel
who would YOU name as driver ?
Watcher
Sorry guys - apologies! I don't know what happened there! I didn't intend to post it twice, and I edited it to say that although we're very busy a suitably modifed form of Bama's excellent draft to DVLA will shortly be winging its way.
bama
More that write to the dVLA the better IMV. builds up a weight fo evidence that can be FOId later. and used againt the PPCs and the DVLA.
Consumer regs 2008 provides the means to damage PPCS now - but does need 'explaining' to TS in a formal complaint.
I am not a solicitor but could have a good bash - need a full set of paperwork from a PPC (plus Roxburghe).
KML looks favourite at the moment - if a full set of paperwork is forthcoming - as they are completely outrageous AND are AOS members..
that Roxburghe letter the worst yet from them though.
sarahg1969
If their website and "Penalty Charge Notices" are anything to go by, I suspect Parking Fines' letters will be an absolute gem!!!
bama
they are getting desperate by the looks of their letters efforts.

nice feeling.
Watcher
QUOTE (Teufel @ Thu, 12 Mar 2009 - 15:33) *
who would YOU name as driver ?


Steve Dargonne?
Ocelot
"Even if you were not driving the vehicle but were the registered keeper you also have a liablity for the acts of the driver in parking in breach of the terms and conditions of parking"

Not even in Nazi Germany...
bama
directly against the BPA CoP which Roxburghe have signed up to.
Watcher
Well, well, well, (hi Bama wink.gif , thanks for pm!).

Mrs W got another letter this morning, this time from APCOA!
quote:

"We are writing to inform you that the letter sent to you from Roxburghe Debt Collectors regarding an unpaid Civil Penalty Notice (yes, they do call it that!!) issue at TOWN hospital (what ?!) was sent in error.

Please note that the case mentioned in the correspondence sent by Roxburghe Debt Collectors has been cancelled and withdrawn from their records and no further action or payment is necessary.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Yours sincerely,

Ryan Hatley
APCOA Parking UK"

Been reading the forum, have they?
Alexis
Write back to Ryan and give him both barrels.
Watcher
QUOTE (Alexis @ Sat, 14 Mar 2009 - 12:07) *
Write back to Ryan and give him both barrels.



Oh, she might well! Hell hath no fury like a Mrs W scorned!!
bama
word must be spreading in the PPCs that their wording (as in the Roxburghe example) is a strict liability criminal offence (IMV that is).
Geek Girl
QUOTE
Even if you do this we may decide to pursue both you and the drive for payment.


Two lots of payment?! My, they are getting greedy/desperate.
bama
and consequently more ridiculous and more unlawful I would suggest.

good stuff !!!
southpaw82
APCOA have council contracts to maintain. That might have had some bearing on their decision.
bama
yup. they have been chucked out by councils before.
Thunderbird167
Seems like they do not wish to learn.

I have been given an identical letter for an alleged contravention on the 20th January 2009. The letter is dated 20 Mar 2009.

Never had any correspondence from APCOA prior to this letter
Watcher
QUOTE (Thunderbird167 @ Tue, 31 Mar 2009 - 10:32) *
I have been given an identical letter for an alleged contravention on the 20th January 2009. The letter is dated 20 Mar 2009.

Never had any correspondence from APCOA prior to this letter



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