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Full Version: [NIP Wizard] M25 - 58 in a 50?
FightBack Forums > Queries > Speeding and other Criminal Offences
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - February 2009
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M25 EPPING nr Bell Common Tunnel anti clockwise track
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Entered long coned area near Bell Common Tunnel, noted 50MPH sign and average speed camera warnings and slowed down appropriately. My speedo reads 10% over, and I'm always really careful of average speed check zones. I know I was indicating over 50 when I entered the zone, but I definitely wasn't indicating as high as 64, and I was allegedly recorded at 58. Continued through the rest of the zone at less than 50.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:47:50 +0000
Good morning. I'm really quite miffed about this as I've had a clean licence for 27 years (minor speeding offence when I was 20) and I'm pretty careful, especially when I'm in this particular car, as it could be construed as a 'target'. Inexperienced as I am with the process, I'm confused as to what kind of camera snapped me. The NIP shows a photo of the front of my car, but there's no detail as to how I was recorded. How do I get this information? I'd be most grateful.

Interesting and informative site!
Hotel Oscar 87
Hi sparkydc

As a guess, though the clue is in your post, this was likely to have been via SPECS average speed system. To avoid capture you need to maintain an 'average' speed below the threshold throughout the length of the check (i.e. between which ever combination of cameras were live at the time) not simply slowing down for the cameras. Maybe your overreading speedo wasn't actually overreading?
The Rookie
Can you clarify why your speedo overreads (or why you think it overreads!)

Hi. I've checked my speedo against recently calibrated ones and 3 satnav systems, and it reads 10% over consistently through its entire range. These particular cars are well known for dubious instrument accuracy!

My passage through that section of M25 was as sedate as most other cars around me, and the road was busy. In fact, a friend was following me and confirms I wasn't pushing it; indeed I did most of the zone at an indicated 50, so my average should have been well below the limit.
The Rookie
Not a Subaru perchance? Mine reads over by about 10%.

It will be interesting to see if your friend following gets a NIP as well, I don't think we have any direct experience of challenging SPECS, it would be a case of trying to show some error in distance/time or has it mistaken another car for yours at the 'in' or 'out' gates. Only one photo I asume? You could write and ask for the other one 'in order to help me confirm the drivers ID' (not proof or evidence you'll note) and see if its a possible a misread of a numberplate occured by the ANPR.


Hi Simon

Yes - only one photo. So far, my friend has received no NIP. Unfortunately it's a Lotus Esprit, which I imagine won't help if I decide to contest! Or perhaps I'm being paranoid.

If I understand you correctly, the ANPR could have mistaken another plate for mine on exit?

I'll take your advice and request the second photo - thanks.


The Rookie
QUOTE (sparkydc @ Mon, 23 Feb 2009 - 10:36) *
If I understand you correctly, the ANPR could have mistaken another plate for mine on exit?

Either that or you were actially speeding! Of course the 'error' could be at entry or exit! The other occasional 'error' is that one of the camera's is left outide the signed limit when they move it as roadworks progress.

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